Develop a "basic backup schedule" mode for when Tado outage or loss of internet
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@Flow I agree that the information provided by Tado on their website is somewhat lacking but I did find the articles in their Help Center informative. I don't think the forum was around at the time.
I must admit I personally always look for problems when buying tech so when it does go wrong I am fully prepared for it. When I first installed Tado I unplugged the internet bridge just to see what the impact would be and how I could work around it.
Thankfully I have only had one instance of my internet being down.
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I'm astonished that TADO hasn't fixed this fundamental error in its design. I have woken up to a blinking control box and no hot water for 2 mornings this week. My wife wants to me to switch the system back to our old 'dumb' system that always delivered every morning.
It's an expensive system to abandon but it's useless if TADO aren't intending to fix it.
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@Bonza I believe that Tado has already said somewhere in this thread that they can't implement this feature on the existing hardware.
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@what_a_tado when I say the "fix' I understand that any 'fix' can't rely on the wi-fi to be operating correctly. But I will try to read the whole of this massive thread as some proposals sound like a possible solution.
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I hadn't actually realised that lack of connection to the internet would cause the whole thing to fail. I thought that as long as there was power in the house and the devices were connected they would still work. I'm going to be in a lot of trouble with my wife and I may well switch to a different system before I go TRV control and my investment is still relatively low.
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I suppose it's some relief to note that - at the very least, a more sophisticated, not server reliant - bridge (or something else to remove cloud dependence) is under consideration.
Personally, I'd have thought that, rather than an entirely new bridge, a separate accessory controller or a modified thermostat might be an answer. Given that the existing thermostat can be used to make manual, local changes (eg in the event of an outage) then a similar device, but with a schedule memory and rudimentary clock, might solve. It could form part of an updated starter kit set and also be sold as an accessory to existing users. It would simply replace (one of) the existing thermostat(s). I had a wall 'stat that had basic on/off programming onboard, all manually set, which kept time to quartz accuracy - which is good enough - 30+ years ago and only replaced it when I got Tado.
Regardless of how this is eventually implemented in hardware (if!), one key requirement, I'd say, is for it all to work from the smartphone app as it does at present where there is no cloud connection. It needs to be capable of using the local WiFi/LAN to transfer data from the app to the "schedule holder" in whatever form that appears.
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@RetsimLegin you’ve described what the bridge/hub should be!
I would think having a second control device could create conflict with the existing bridge?
FYI you can actually use Apple HomeKit today to punch out manual commands (not for hot water) if that’s an option in your house.
I’m forever hopeful that Tado agree it’s far far better to make a replacement and compatible bridge/hub that works offline as well as online.
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@GrayDav4276 While nothing concrete has been said, reading between the lines, it's pretty clear that Tado are currently working on offline capable hardware and are hoping to release it next year. Trust me. 😉
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@jcwacky unless you know something we don’t, all the support folk here have been able to offer are vague insights.
I think the best we got was ‘it’s a priority’ from Rob, when pushed. But clearly this sits behind the priority for compatibility with new protocols and increased range - for which Rob had seen a prototype iirc.
Why do you think it’s pretty clear? Also I recall we were given guidance late last year that we would see something new in 2022..
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"FYI you can actually use Apple HomeKit today to punch out manual commands (not for hot water) if that’s an option in your house."
Indeed. Not for hot water.
I'm not "invested" in the Apple ecosystem as I find it too restrictive/narrow, so I'm not going to buy an iPad just for this purpose; not even a used one. I did borrow an Apple device to try Homekit. It was only then I found it is useless for hot water, which would be a requirement. And should be provided for (of course). And the loaned item has gone back to its owner.
So, no; not here I'm afraid.
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Our internet cable was accidentally damaged a few weeks ago (still waiting a reply from tado since then) and I was surprised to ring that without internet the whole tado system doesn’t work on a local network.
I really can’t work out why this would be the case??
Even more frustrating, I had child locks on most radiator thermostats and so in the cold weather we couldn’t turn on our roads as they were locked off and the app wouldn’t work.
This feels like a massive oversight even though an edge case it just doesn’t make sense to require internet for the system to work like my hue lights do0 -
Without the internet the app and the schedule won't work, but the thermostats can still be controlled manually. Removing the batteries from a TRV and re-inserting them is meant to disable child lock so that the TRV can be used manually to heat a room.
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Can I suggest you add your "upvote" here
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I am in the process of carrying out my due diligence before potentially buying & installing Tado on an extensive six zone underfloor wet system.
To not have a fall back, local user based back up facility is a totally ridiculous, fundamental flaw and probably a show stopper for us. Anything can and frequently does happen with internet connections. For such an otherwise capable system this is a serious weakness of the system.
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@GrayDav4276 totally agree. Sadly, I will never recommend Tado as a viable option until it is clear that any new hardware resolves this issue, and is backward compatible with the current setup.2
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Thanks for your comments. I recently changed the batteries in a lot of my units and they still have the child lock on so no reset @GrilledCheese20
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@nicmul This is by no means a solution for the problem in this thread, but check this out: https://support.tado.com/en/articles/4849690-how-can-i-deactivate-child-lock-when-the-smart-radiator-thermostat-can-t-connect-to-the-app0
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Yes, disabling child lock is only temporary. As soon as the connection with the cloud is re-established the child lock switches back on.
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I've only just installed my Tado today and didn't realise it won't work without internet...this is a must have feature! Crazy it doesn't have fallback.1
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@jcwacky I've only just seen the original reply.
I'm sorry but the reasons given, for not having offline scheduling mode on a request that, from what I can see has the most votes on the site, is poor.
I cannot believe that the bridge device doesn't have any sense of time capability in hardware. IC's literally run on timing in ticks and generally it's pretty easy to convert that to seconds, even if it's not 100% reliable without a dedicated timer chip (which you probably have anyway!). Take the last know time from the server and run on ticks for the schedule, until connection returns, then re-sync.
I've just requested to return mine to the shop and I'll be replacing it with a Hive, which definitely has offline mode, as it should be!
Regards.
TadoToday (Trevor)
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There's going to be some sort of clock/timing-signals in the devices, and pretty accurate ones, at least, or it can't work with ethernet, or the radio, etc. as that requires timing. The firmware might not be set up to use it for longer term timekeeping, or have any idea of what time it is, and that isn't needed for what it is doing now, so the original answer is probably just a bit of a simplification. Still not a good reason to lock people out from their own devices, so they can't easily rig up a couple of scheduled cron jobs to change schedules for them from a local PC/NAS etc.0
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@TadoToday I would seriously caution you about the Hive system if you intend to include that company’s TRVs. The latter are utterly unfit for the job, particularly with regard to their control of the boiler (what Hive calls HOD, heat on demand) as you will discover if you visit the Hive forum. I returned mine and changed to Tado. Yes, the need for internet connection is infuriating if there’s a drop out, and a range extender is much needed but overall I’ve been very pleased whereas with Hive I was tearing my hair out because of the TRVs. However, if I was to start again from scratch, I think I’d choose the Drayton “Wiser” system . . .1
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My internet has been out this last week and thank god the weather has been warm. Crazy. I’ve bought a wifi box to fall Tado back to, but it’s unacceptable it doesn’t follow a fall back schedule.1
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As all previously stated:
1. The fact that the system needs Internet to work SHOULD BE WRITTEN ON THE BOX ON BIG BLACK BOLD LETTERS. If you don't, that is tantamount to customer deceit
2. I shall immediately return the kit and ask for a full refund
3. My personal opinion is a company that has been made aware by so many customers that a problem exists and actively acknowledge the problem but say it will not be fixed, deserves to lay in a ditch and die.
4. You have not only lost a customer, you lost many many more as everyone having this problem tells other potential customers not to buy your system.2 -
To those experiencing the buyer’s remorse which I think everyone here has experienced.. Tado are seemingly wholly motivated by growth and new business so I implore you to leave honest reviews and ratings on app stores and external review sites. These appear to be closely monitored by Tado support staff, who will try to get your feedback taken down if they disagree with it. It appears to be the only medium they understand.1
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@Rob when you said
"Our devices need an outside input when using a schedule, as they are not aware of time. Either from our servers, or a local Homekit host."
could you explain better how this input is given to the Tado devices? Why local Homekit host can do this and if there are other host like Home Assistant that could do the same?
Thanks
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could you explain better how this input is given to the Tado devices? Why local Homekit host can do this and if there are other host like Home Assistant that could do the same?
My understanding is that the Tado servers (which are aware of time) communicate with the Tado bridge in your house (which isn't aware of time). So when it's time to turn the heating on, the Tado server just sends a message at that point in time to tell the bridge to do the instruction.
When using Homekit, it is your Homekit hub/device that is effectively taking the place of the Tado server. It knows time and sends instructions to the Tado hub at the exact time points (e.g. when using Automations).
Re Home Assistant, my understanding is that because Tado does not offer an open API on the Tado bridge to allow apps like HA to give it instructions, then it isn't possible for HA to communicate directly with your Tado bridge.
It's via the Tado servers, or via a Homekit device only.
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@ziki Shoddy Engineering is what it is. Even if the device isn't aware of time and has to receive an instruction from the server on schedule 'on/off' changes, it's likely still technically possible to run on internal chip timing, even if the 'tick' drifts out over time.
Anyway, Tado have ignored the highest requested feature on their site and that tells you everything you need to know. Either they are technically no willing to try for their customers, or they are more interested in profit from paid-for features.
I will say, that for most people losing internet is not a major issue, but there are plenty of times when it could happen: A) if Bridge is running from an extender and someone switches it off. B) Your Wifi goes down, or the signal doesn't reach the Bridge reliably. C) Tado's server go down and all their customer lose the ability to run a schedule.
Mine is uninstalled and I have fitted a Drayton Wiser heat. Very happy with it and happy with the fact that if I lose my internet, the schedule for both water and heating will run as I'd set it, meaning I won't be A) losing money, because my heating is stuck on when I lose connection, B) My kids won't wake up freezing in the middle of winter, due to it locking off C) We won't not be able to have a shower because the hot water was stuck in the 'off' condition.
Plenty of reasons to be happy with my change to the Drayton.
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