Develop a "basic backup schedule" mode for when Tado outage or loss of internet
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I think Hive and Drayton are the key contenders in the UK.
Although it seems that while they do understand the basics and therefore have local scheduling, they also have their own other issues (at least they did a 18mths ago during my peak-Tado-buyers-remorse). I’m hopeful they will improve over time!
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@Flow Its not really a vulnerability more a design decision by Tado based on their belief that a manual fallback option being available in case of a lost internet connection is sufficient.
Whether a basic backup schedule is included in the next iteration of their hardware is anyone's guess.
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I went all-in on Tado during lockdown in autumn 2020, when I had loads of time on my hands. I seem to be pretty lucky in having a reliable internet connection (even having moved between ISPs with entirely separate fiber infrastructure, for cost reasons, since then), and I've generally been happy with Tado.
Key to getting happy with it, however, was solving the problem caused by smart TRVs being right next to the heat sources, which I achieved using cheap zigbee thermostats connected to a Raspberry Pi running Home Assistant. This was game changing...
... to the point that, if I were starting again, I would probably go full-on geek and put together a fully DIY system using Home Assistant and ZigBee/z-wave sensors, actuators and relays.
An example is discussed here; the length of the article alone shows that it's a pretty chunky project, though: https://siytek.com/the-ultimate-home-assistant-diy-thermostat-guide-for-single-or-multiple-zone-heating/
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Well that’s perhaps a difference of opinion. But in my view with the app defunct, and my house and water stone cold (unless I run around the house, remove the battery from each each TRV to defeat the child lock, then manually override each radiator, each hour (my manual overrides are set to 60 mins)) then yes I do absolutely class Tado as vulnerable to an internet outage. In this scenario Tado ceases to be any use to me.
On the other hand, in the scenario that the heating is stuck on.. and unable to be turned off without physically resetting or turning off your boiler - is that not a pretty fundamental vulnerability?
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I am thinking the same thing, but just in pure HomeKit, and code my own Shelly rely to Heating relay HomeKit. I'll have to drop OpenTherm, but Weather Comp should be just as efficient.
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It's also worth mentioning that you can - I think - use Home Assistant or Homekit with Tado hardware to create a fully locally-controlled solution. I think it's all-or-nothing, though: you have to detach the Tado hardware from the cloud so you lose Tado smart scheduling. Although you can do similar - and probably more flexible, if anything - scheduling in HA, I've decided not to go down this route, mainly because the Tado app is more accessible than HA substitutes for other householders to use. (And because I'm not worried about my merry connection.)
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Did anyone really expect a 'smart system' to be missing basic functionality that a dumb system has no problem with? I'm lucky because we have a pretty stable internet connection, and now that Tado manages to actually resume by itself after a loss of power or internet we rarely experience issues anymore. I still actively discourage people from Tado purchases however, as I just can't recommend it for many of the reasons already mentioned on the thread.
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@Flow neither of those (Drayton or Hive) support TRV's calling for heat, they just open and close the TVR valve. So that not the same and pretty much a step backwards.
EDIT:
apparently the Drayton Wiser TRV's can "Call for Heat", it is just a shame it does not support HomeKit.
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"Drayton Wiser TRV's can "Call for Heat", it is just a shame it does not support HomeKit."
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Suspect they won't specifically add HomeKit because they said pretty early on that they were all in on Matter. I've not been following it closely but a quick Google found this article, it seems they've definitely taken steps to be Matter compatible.
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Using IFTT to reset at 1am.
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Does anyone have any experience with Salus Quantum stats? It appears they do not lose the program if the internet goes down.
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Nice cold house to wake up to this morning with Virginmedia total outage. At least I had hot water as I use hive for this0
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Hive TRVs can call for heat, the Hive term is "Heat on Demand" (HOD) but it doesn't work at all well, that's why I abandoned the system for Tado . . .
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@hugbilly thanks, but got Wiser, and with Home Assistant it miles better, does "passive mode" (do not call for heat) and it can be done via schedules, it way more powerful. The OpenTherm is not as efficient as tado˚, but I have purchased the weather comp kit for my boiler, just waiting for GAS Safe to fit it, as doing my self will invalidate my warranty
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what was annoying for us was the internet outage meaning that the boiler reverted to its old state whilst we were away on holiday which was heating on demand for rads with non trvs-the result? 24/7 for ten days of the flat being 22 degrees whilst
we were away even thought it had been set to frost protection0 -
I also abandoned Hive and it’s very random operation for Tado, which overall is much better. I don’t have the Internet challenges some report here (although I have a complex network and a very sprawling house).
@MPJ and @Flow have you considered a smart plug connected to the Tado Internet bridge PSU with either a daily reboot in the small hours, or something smarter like a RasPi with an API call to operate the plug if it detects an Internet outage, once a stable Internet feed is restored ?
If you have issues with outages generally, take a look at the Mobile broadband providers (EE, 3 etc) it’s cheap enough if you have good enough coverage of 4G signal. Also, have you reviewed whether the problem is really Virgin, or simply the number of internal devices connecting via WiFi. My home network is complex because it’s really enterprise rather than home in it’s design and implementation, because I have over 200 client devices (smart stuff, TV devices, mobile phones, laptops and tablets) and a typical home broadband router cannot cope with that kind of device count (I don’t mean the overall bandwidth demands). My broadband router does one single thing, it routes. DNS, DHCP and WiFi is all handled by other devices (RasPi for DNS/DHCP, TP-Link Omada switches and access points for networking layer), in order to ensure a stable Internet connection.
XKRMonkey
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I realise this is only tangentially connected to the OPs questions but...
As a new user my set up includes having my Tado internet bridge plugged by ethernet into a TP-Link RE220 wifi extender upstairs.
So my question is...in the event of internet outage could I connect the RE220 wifi extender to a wifi hotspot on my iphone using mobile data to keep control of the Tado devices?
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@Peter_James If it is possible for your wifi extender to extend the hotspot from your iPhone, then yes, this would allow Tado to work. I'm not sure how easy/reliable that would be in practice though.
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Whilst it would not help if the router breaks or if you are away, in all other cases, there is no need for the devices themselves to have backup schedule.
All it needs is the app, when the phone is on the same network, to be able to control them directly following the schedule.
That would at least solve a large number of the issues.
That's a software solution, and should be easy to implement... If they don't it's because they don't want to, not because they can't..
I am already regretting having opted for Tado (installed yesterday) because of this..0 -
They are not going to fix this, it's been five years and counting....0
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Can someone point me to a local schedule system? People have mentioned homekit? Do I need additional hardware for that?
Side question:
The internet bridge syncs time with Tado servers. Therefore can this not be done locally via a raspberry Pi?
We make API commands to Tado but can we send the commands directly to the internet bridge?0 -
Yes, you can use Homekit or Home Assistant for local control. Never tried Homekit, but definitely works with Home Assistant - then you can do all the schedules from there.
Worked for me, but didn't resolve the other big Tado issue of TRVs losing connection with the bridge, so in the end the whole lot went on ebay.
Side questions: no & no (unless anyone else knows different?)0 -
+1 No brainer! Why not Tado?
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I’m optimistic it will in the next generation of hardware.0
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I plan to wait until the end of the 23rd century when global warming means I don’t need to heat my home any longer2
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Tado updated this article 1 week ago. Have you seen this?
https://support.tado.com/en/articles/3477781-what-happens-when-the-internet-connection-is-temporarily-lost-can-i-still-control-my-heating-or-air-conditioning-using-tado
Based on this, I'm not fussed about schedules. As long as I can set my heating without internet, I am happy.0 -
Pleased you are happy. How are you going to know to go round the house when your Internet (or the Tado servers) go down in the middle of the night? You will still wake up to a cold house. Also what if you are away from the house at the time?
Try disconnecting your router and see if their suggestions work for you.0 -
@SPT thats a carefully worded article that masks the fact Tado lacks very basic functionality. The wording omits that your heating turns dumb and is stuck either OFF (or ON) until you intervene.
My manual control is set to 1hr, so I would have to run around the house every hour.
It also does nothing to help my lack of hot water which is scheduled to get up to temp while everyone is asleep.
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