Considering Tado - EU or UK version for EMS control
Hi all.
Im in the UK and have a Worcester Bosch Greenstar 25Si Mk4 combi boiler. It has EMS bus compatibility available, which I understand the Tado system is compatible with so that I can get full smart control of the boiler flow temperature from the Tado device.
However as Im in the UK, the version of the Tado thermostat available here does not have the bus connections meaning I would have to source the EU version of the starter kit. If I go for the UK version, I would have to wire it using the 240V switched live method which gives simple on/off boiler control.
However there is a price difference. I can pick up the UK version of the starter kit for around half the price of the EU version.
What to do? How desirable is having full EMS control of the boiler? Will the Tado keep the boiler in low flow temperature condensing mode for as much of the time as possible if I opt for the version which supports this? Is it worth the extra £100 for the EU version of the kit?
Comments
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try picking up an extension kit from ebay, as those are compatible.
i got one (which shipped from poland) from ebay.
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Having the boiler able to modulate its output will be more efficient and put less strain on the components. However Tado isn’t compatible with all Worcester ebus systems so I would check this first.
If you do use relay you can still turn down the boiler’s max flow temperature to lower than 55c to allow it to condense, and Tado can simulate modulation by cycling the boiler.
You can get second hand extension kits, which have a digital connection, second hand for about £50.0 -
Is this the right product number for the extension kit: EK01-TC-UK-03
Does the extension kit duplicate the wireless receiver, so if I buy this, do I then need the full starter kit as that also includes a wireless receiver?
@johnnyp78 "If you do use relay you can still turn down the boiler’s max flow temperature to lower than 55c to allow it to condense, and Tado can simulate modulation by cycling the boiler." - yeah so it makes things confusing because I don't know how beneficial the additional functionality is. In my old system I just used to manually turn up the flow temperature in the winter when the house wasn't getting warm enough. If I let the Tado do it, how much of the time will it keep the boiler in condensing mode compared to the less efficient modes?
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The wireless receiver is the new version of the extension kit so you don’t need it. Extension kits have a serial number starting BU and have one button and one led. If it looks like that it will be fine but as I said, make sure Tado supports your boiler’s ems version.0
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@johnnyp78 "Extension kits have a serial number starting BU" - in that case I don't think there are any for sale on ebay right now. There are only a handful matching the description and these have a serial number starting either TD or BP, so I can't be sure its the right product.
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This is what you want https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/403916137872
Or this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1754331346080 -
Ah ok thanks. Yeah the second item was the one I found earlier but didn't see the first one you posted, which seems to be the whole kit.
Back again on the way Tado works - if I buy the modulating version, will it keep the boiler in condensing mode for most of the time? Or am I better of manually setting the boiler to 50 degrees to force it to condense all the time, and only bumping it up manually when its not enough to heat the house?
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As I understand it, on digital connections Tado initially ramps up to the max flow temperature, which is about 80c and then modulates down. On my boiler I set the max flow temp to 55c (and asked Tado support to do it too) so that it’s always operating at its most efficient level. Had no problems heating my house at all, and I have fairly minimal insulation.0
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I just don't know what to do. I can faff about trying to get the EMS compatible extension kit or EU kit off ebay, which will probably be out of warranty and/or old stock. Or I can pick up a brand new black version of the Uk starter kit off Screwfix right now for £100 and just wire it using 240V switching, and set the boiler to 50-55 degrees on the control dial.
Its difficult to know whether what Im giving up in the UK version really matters that much.
I have an old house too (1930's solid wall, timber floors, but with decent loft insulation and windows), and the radiators in the rooms are fairly large.
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I bought a second hand extension kit so I could use Opentherm and not faff about with 230v connections and it’s been great. Obviously that’s no guarantee that every second hand one will be! I strongly suspect that Tado will reintroduce digital connections in its next generation of uk products, but knowing the speed they operate at that could still be several years away.
Modulation isn’t the be all and end all though and Tado will attempt to simulate it on a relay connection. The other option would be to use Tado on relay and install a weather compensation kit, which would modulate the output.1 -
@johnnyp78 so you said above you got Tado support to do something to your device to change the max allowable temperature? This is something you had to contact them for and they had to interface with your device?
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I have an ideal vogue boiler which seems to let you set max flow temperature even when it’s connected to Opentherm, but I asked them to do it too just to make sure. On other boilers digital connections seem to remove all manual controls from the boiler.0
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Ok thanks. Im torn on this one I think.
Brand new starter kit from Screwfix £100, no digital control. Get a warranty.
EU version starter kit brand new from Tado £200, digital control. Get a warranty.
Or try and source the parts used/off Ebay - looking like about £80 -£100 there too. No warranty. Could buy the Screwfix deal and try to find the extension kit separately - probably looking at around £140 there.
But pricing aside, if I give up manual control of the boiler flow temperature dial, how do I know that Tado is controlling my boiler in its most efficient mode? If its -5 outside, won't Tado just fire the boiler on full power? Will it then cut the flow temperature as it comes up to temp in the rooms or not?
Im overthinking it I know...things were so much easier when you just had to turn your heating on and off manually. When its cold, turn it on.
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On digital connections, it will fire the boiler on the appropriate level of power, so for example if you have a room at 19c and want to heat it to 20, it won’t fire the boiler at maximum output. If you have a room that’s 15c and want to heat to 21c Tado will likely fire the boiler at full output then modulate down.
If you ask Tado support to set the max flow temp to 55c or lower your boiler will be operating at its most efficient level. Then just set the room temps you want and forget about it.
It sounds like warranties are important to you so if you can afford it I’d go for the new eu wireless kit - provided you check with Tado first that your boiler is compatible.0 -
If I cap the flow temp to 55 though I may as well buy the standard 240v switched version and use the dial on the boiler.
Warranties aren't necessarily important but potentially buying an eBay item that doesn't work for not much of a lower price than a new item is something I'm wary of.
I just don't know if the digital controls are worth the extra hassle or not really, that's the crux of it.0 -
No that’s not quite right. You’re capping the flow temperature to a maximum of 55c. With a digital connection Tado will modulate the boiler well below that, and if you have separate rooms set up it should deliver lower output if you just call for heat in one room.
With relay the boiler is either on or off. It may have internal modulation but Tado will have no control over this.0 -
When you get the device and app, can you see the flow temperature in the app? My boiler doesn't have a display of its own so if I can see the temperature in the app I would know over time how the device is controlling things.0
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No flow temperature in the app. Does your boiler have its own app? Otherwise you’ll just have to trust Tado.0
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I would have to use the Worcester Bosch Easy Control device which has to be wired in to the boiler to get an app, my boiler doesn't have a native app to directly link to it.0
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Guys when wiring the EMS connections on the Tado extension kit/wireless receiver, do I also need to wire in 240V power?
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Some ebus connections are self powered, though I’m not sure about EMS. Try without first and if the extension kit doesn’t power up, wire in l and n.1
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Well I've been trying to buy an extension kit or EU kit off eBay and they are being bid up to silly prices.
Poor show @Tado not selling these kits when people clearly want them.0 -
i got mine on a BuyItNow price of around £46
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I have a similar dilemma…Vaillant ecotec pro 28 as a combi boiler for CH, and not sure if is it worthy to give £200 for a EU starter kit to use e-bus or £100 for a UK version and use the on/off SL configuration…can someone give some arguments for any of the versions?…thanks!0
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Search the forum, there are endless debates about the benefits of modulation and relay.1
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Don’t forget if you have a hot water cylinder the water temp should be set to 60C minimum to avoid Legionella . . .1
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Johnnyp78, thank you for answering, I read above you have as it seems to be pertinent opinions,I’m new on this forum, and i know this it couldn’t be an excuse waiting for a quick response instead spending time on scrolling the forum!…but I’l try it…do you already have an opinion and can you share it with me on this subject?…thanks again!0
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Modulation is the gold standard, tado simulating modulation via relay is almost as good. There are also compatibility issues with ebus so it’s best to check with Tado if your boiler is supported.1
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Thank you again Johnnyp78!…and how and where can I get this confirmation of the compatibility from Tado?…sorry to bother you again!0
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Here you go https://support.tado.com/en/articles/3590239-how-can-i-contact-tado-customer-support1
