Manual mode for smart radiator thermostat

Dim

I would sometimes prefer to keep my radiator always pleasant warm instead of turning it off and on every time temperature on sensor rises and falls. I suggest to introduce manual mode where user manages the valve position like on a regular thermostatic head. Let's say on the usual scale 1 to 5 instead of setting the target degree. This way sensor measurments could also be more accurate. To add this mode resolves concerns of those who wants to have temperatures above 25 or below certain degree.

luteijn

That is not 'like a regular thermostatic head', but basically like a faucet... When you put a regular thermostatic head on '3' it will still open and close the valve based on temperature, you just move the target temperature to a different one than '2' or '5' would.

Not to say that a way to manually set a valve to x% open (or 100-x% closed) would not be welcome...

Dim

Thanks, you are right, that way 'normal head' does not completely close the valve. Except summer time maybe or when it is set to 1. Most of the year it still allows 'some' hot water. That makes heat fluctuations smoother. I think many users still want being able to manual control. Could be even premium feature and I agree to pay a few bucks a month for it.

GrayDav4276

What.............!!!

johnnyp78

What you’re asking for could be achieved by simply removing the trv and fitting a manual valve, but also negates the point of having trvs (smart or dumb).

Dim

Manual valves can not be remotely controlled.

johnnyp78

How would Tado, a system which operates on setting target temperatures, incorporate a valve which doesn’t do this? I understand that what you’re asking for is theoretically possible but I don’t see any way it could be done with Tado’s temperature control management software.

Dim

My request comes from the fact that current temperature sensor on the thermostat is extremely impacted by heat coming from radiator itself. There is almost no connection with the numbers I see in the app and real temperature in rooms. In my case it about 3 degrees of difference. The offset function is not helpful as it seems there are only 2 automatic positions of valve: opened / closed. If Tado has more positions in its operation (eg not completely closing the valve to balance the temperature deviation) it could make more sense. My proposal is not to replace the current logic which is appreciated by many of us, but to add new mode where some of us could set exactly what he wants.

luteijn

The classic TRV has the setting mechanism (offset introduced by turning it to * or 1-5), temperature controller (valve actuator) and temperature sensor (element expanding and contracting based on heat) tightly integrated (they're basically the same thing, so really integrayed!), because it is a very smart design, using the actual energy leeched from the environment as feed-back directly, all without the need of batteries, a cloudbased brain or a monthly subscription fee.

These 'smart' TRVs we're using are actually as dumb as bricks in several ways. All the intelligence is external, they also can't do anything without battery power. The setting mechanisms, sensors and actuator don't need to be as tightly coupled in the same housing as they are, as there is no direct link between them. It is actually a bit stupid to have the sensors right next to the radiator, and the target-settimg mechanism ought to be in an easy to reach place, not on a radiator.
At least there is the possibility to use the app/website/some selected home-automation services to set values, and you can put up sensors separately from the knobs, but those knobs really shouldn't have them on-board in the first place, and be cheaper. (Yeah, not much cheaper, as the temp/humidity sensor and a rotary switch is not much extra cost if you already have the radio, motor, battery-cmnpartment etc. And it makes fpr a nice all in one drop in replacement, but still)
A way better set-up wpuld be valve actuator on the radiator, the settings and display unit(s) (entirely optional, as most people would probably use their phone, but a specialized device might still be desirable) on the wall for easy reach, and sensor-package(s) somewhere in a far ceiling corner (NOT integrated in the control box, to be away from heat and moisture of operators). Preferably most of the intelligence/scheduling would also run on a local (raspi-class) computer, independent of cloud/internet (but optionally offloading some stuff to the cloud that needs a bit more power, like maybe pre-computing heating curves, or analysing response times, lag etc. for your particular home installation).
If you rely on the all-in-one knob, the monitoring control program has to vecome much more complicated trying to compensate for the less than ideal placement, and the unknown size of the room, amount of heat leaking, mapping of 'x turns of the motor' to %age of valve open.
It is practically impossible to get this right as a one size fits all solution, but give individual owners a chance to control their valves at 'low-level' and they can figure out something for their situation..