X or V3 (or other?) for a newbie?

sjrsjr

I hope I'm posting in the right place, this might be too generalised.

I've been trawling endlessly through Nest, Wiser, Hive, Honeywell etc and started reading this forum because I finally decided on Tado V3. Then I came across X. I'm no tech expert so it's been hard work.

I'm in the middle of a house refurb and haven't yet moved in so I want to control the heating over winter when I'm not always there. Currently there's a newish basic combi boiler, Ideal Atlantic, Opentherm compatible, no thermostat, but I may switch to a condensing one next year, so would want water control too.

I decided on Tado X mainly because the internet isn't always stable and I didn't want to risk V3's cloud-based settings leaving me with a cold house. The Nest learning thermostat was also a contender but my understanding is that it's not compatible with smart TRVs calling for heat room-by-room.

However reading the comments/teething problems about X and reading that Tado is making local storage available for V3, should I be choosing V3, or will that become obsolete soon? (It's much cheaper at the moment - are they clearing stock to make way for X?)

I just want to avoid any more problems being added to my refurb list! Thanks.

AC44

I just upgraded from a combination of a Nest room thermostat (2nd Gen) and V3 Tado radiator valves to the Tado X with radiator thermostats, 1x wireless thermostat, and receiver incl hot water control (not using open therm).

As you point out the Nest system cannot do individual rad/room heat call. Much better with it as the pump and/or boiler turn off when not needed and also any room can turn the boiler on when needed.

The main difference with X specifically though is the noise of the valves operating. I’ve found it much lower on the X compared to V3. Would be interested to know if others experienced the same thing. They were noisy enough that previously I had not wanted to expand my system beyond 4 valves.

I’m not totally convinced about the new design. The look suits some radiators and not others so much. The display is nice and also much more useful with more info. I found one radiator where it was too close to the wall to orientate the display facing outwards which is a pain. However this was in my lounge where I configured the wireless room thermostat to work together with two radiators (rather than having this a main thermostat say in the hall like conventional ones). This gets round that issue and is working well at controlling the heat.

sjrsjr

Thanks for your thoughts. I've been forced to give up on any kind of aesthetics. It's an old house and my radiators are the 'traditional' column ones with old-style looking valves. They're not compatible with smart TRVs, so I'll need to replace all the valves first and then stick modern plastic smart valves on them. Not the look I was hoping to achieve!

AC44

I’m about to try spray painting one of them to match in with the radiator (anthracite grey). Not sure if a good idea or not!

sjrsjr

Interesting - I look forward to you reporting back!

tadouser224

I've actually just switched from V3+ to the X. I didn't use the V3+ for long, however despite following the advice for how to position the bridge etc I would still get episodes where the connection would be lost. The issue here was that once the connection is lost, the boiler remains in the mode that it was in at that time. I had an episode where the heating was on, connection was lost and the boiler was firing for a long time and the house was boiling. I had to switch it off from the mains and reset it to resolve the issue. This is in a house where my WiFi is pretty good with FTTP.

I've switched to X and only just installed it so yet to see how this holds up but already it seems the connection is better as it responds quicker to the app (almost instantly). The main downside is the missing features. As per my previous post and other posts, some key features like early start and selecting how long to boost hot water are missing. Hopefully this will swiftly change, I can't see why this wouldn't be a simple thing to do

wateroakley

hello @sjrsjr welcome. We looked three years ago and were thoroughly confused with the different smart heating control systems. We made the jump (a leap of faith) with Tado V3+ in February 2022 and have subsequently worked out what works well for us. It all depends on what you are trying to do, your home, the heating system, and your budget.

Our ROI was 9 months in 2022. Others say 12-36 months.
Users can request off-line schedules.
if you have a larger home, the single V3+ dongle can be a connection issue for some users.

Our home is 200 sqm. Compared to 2018-21, the smart controls help us to save in 2024 around 50% of gas for heating and hot water. No promises that others can do the same.

Hope this helps.

sjrsjr

Thank you, this is really helping me.

Paying for itself is obviously important but I also like the convenience of being able to adjust the temperature via the app - it's so easy to run up the bill by leaving the heating on manually. Also, I'm currently in a smaller place where the broadband signal is weak at the back of the house so anything that has better connectivity appeals. I plan to start with limited TRVs and hopefully in time they'll come down in price

policywonk

@sjrsjr have used the V series since 2015 or 2016 (long time ago). I do not seek integration with smart home systems, but I have needed smooth running, easy app control. Got all that with the v series, and now the charity I assist uses this line at all the rescue centres. The big benefit came with the deployment of smart trvs, and the smart wall stats when we installed under floor heating, in cost savings, the way in which all the devices seem to work together to not cause my boiler to cycle, the app behaving well, and now, not being dependent on the cloud as much as it was. Today with the Internet down now than 5 times a month it has been stable and all the rooms have worked well.
In one site we have a large very, very old building and I suppose the X series world be justified, but thus far the v series has coped.
When it comes to opentherm it is important to get the right modules. It takes some thought but this forum is, in my experience, really helpful.

sjrsjr

Thanks - I suppose it's a decision between cost and future proofing (if there is such a thing with technology). Matter compatibility is useful but the price V3 is more appealing!

tulloch

Hot water temperature control with X and Opentherm is not available although it was on V3. I was told by support that they intended to implement it. There does not seem to be a timescale for early start to be added which is strange as the code is surely written and been in use for around 10 years?

gyerek_cipo

I have V3+ for about 2 years now.

I chosed tado v3+ because the design was minimalist, and I can control each room separately (you would need a Smart Radiator Thermostat on each radiatot, obviously), this is important for me as I have long hours when only 1 room is used in the house, and didn't wanted to heat the whole house.

In regards, to reliability, I had no issues with the V3+, I have to admit I don't lose internet access too often, and I haven't seen that this to be a problem in my case at all.

In regard to V3+ vs X , X appears to be "more modern" in term of technology, and it would present itself as more compatible with other smart devices (even from other brands) - although I am not knowledgeable about this Matter (pun intended :) ).

Battery life:
I was using the regular 1.2V AA rechargeable batteries for a while, but found that the Smart Radiator Valves opening and closing frequently does need some juice.
Having 7 Smart Radiator valves I found that I had to replace or charge up a battery every 2 weeks or so in one of the rooms.
I have since bought Lithium 1.5 V AA rechargeable batteries (the ones that have a Micro USB charger), and these do last a lot longer.
A side note here is that 2 of my radiator valves (not the tado part, but the actual plumbing part, the physical valve) started leaking just a little bit, and these leaks didn't bode well with the Lithium batteries, as I mentioned they have a Micro USB port for charging, but the regular (rechargeable) batteries and the tado device on top, are still working as expected.

API:
Whilst there is no official API for tado, there are 2 python libraries (libtado and python-tado) you can use to programmatically set anything you would like.

Hope this helps you and anybody else searching for more information.

policywonk

Three big questions about you house that determine the answer.

1. If it iis a large house (ie much bigger than the average semi detached) or if you have stone walls, thick walls internally, then X is best.
2. If you want to integrate everything together with smart speakers, automated everything, and you've found products that use Thread routers for home automation, then X.
3. If your heating is controlled via dumb on-off, ie relay based switching, or entirely with Opentherm, then X is workable. If your boiler uses digital controls other than EMS, then come back and let us know - because V3+ handles a much wider range of digital controls than X.

So, assuming 1 and 2 still leave you with room to decide, what exactly is the model of your boiler? Is it an S plan, Y plan? or a combi? Is there a hot water tank? How many radiators in total? Is underfloor heating in place? These determine a great deal of what you need to think about.

Come back with the answers. We'll think.

quyen

I have Vaillant ecofit (which seems digital control to me) and a hot tank and a tank of the loft. Only 6 radiators in the small house which are on normal TRVs. I don't see near future of replacing them yet. I don't have any Alexa or Goole Home... Would you say V3 rather than X? I just need a wireless thermostat I can control on the app and can limit max temperature. Thanks

policywonk

@quyen It would have been better for you start a different thread. Please do start one by providing the following details.

• The exact model. The Ecofit series can all be controlled via the EMS-BUS, but some are system boilers, some are combis. Am I right in presuming yours is a system boiler?
• Do you have zone valves in place, Y plan, or S Plan motorised valves? If so, what do they serve?
• The zone valves are switched by wired thermostats. What specific models?
• You refer to a hot tank, which I presume to be a Hot Water cylinder. Is it controlled by a Vaillant EMS BUS thermal sensor or an on-off thermostat? Please check.
• Is there a Vaillant wiring centre in place, to handle the zone valves, or is it an old school wiring centre? If a Vaillant centre, what product model is it?

The V3 series can always work in relay mode and, if you add Smart TRV heads to each radiator, it will improve the efficiency of your home.

However to make it work in EMS (ie digital mode you will need to address that potential for change in the following order:

1. Locate and make sure you are comfortable having to install, a Vaillant approved, EMS-BUS compatible sensor which can be connected to your hot water tank, replacing any old style on-off thermostat. Obtain the instructions to fit that and inform your boiler's control panel accordingly. Dont fit it yet.
2. Only if (1) is sorted, consider buying a kit with an EU Tado wireless receiver in it. It will need an EU wireless receiver, as well as wired thermostats to drive the zone valves. To know the full set of products needed, we will need your answers.
3. If (1) and (2) are within reach for you, come back with the answers. It will look like you can complete the necesssary changes to to talk to the boiler in EMS mode, so you benefit from the digital modulation side of the boiler.
   1. Contact Tado support, giving them the answers to the questions placed above, and ask them for the fitting instructions.
   2. Keep us informed.
4. If there are complications with their instructions, come back here and we'll help.
5. Prepare to spend at least a day, perhaps with a heating engineer helping (your call):
   1. Downloading the installation guides for your boiler and your existing thermostats. You'll need that to identify all the wires, what they do and map them from where they are to what needs to be in place.
   2. Replacing the HW cylinder thermostat.
   3. Replacing the CH thermostat controlling the CH zone valve.
   4. Rewiring the supply to the boiler, and to the boiler's controls so that the boiler is ready to engage in EMS mode.
   5. Configuring the app, the Tado bridge, the Tado thermostat and the Tado wireless receiver to make sure it is all safe
   6. Taking photos with each step so that if you have to revert, you can go back swiftly.
   7. Power on and test.

quyen

@policywonk thanks for your detailed reply. I am creating a new thread now