Tado Marketing Test
Answers
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Unless you want an answer in the form of pitchforks and torches, i do suggest a different approach to this.
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@Emcee a test for a new paid plans that appears to include basics to a heating control system such as scheduling.
It would be beneficial to the Community if you could be more transparent about the potential outcome for existing users should the "test" be successful, assuming there is a success criteria?
The "test" statement says that Google / Alexa / HomeKit integration will remain free, and while that is all very well for heating, hot water control functions are tied to the cloud.
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We realise it is not you making these decisions.
BUT
"This is just a test" doesn't cut it. Someone somewhere came up with an idea to charge €1 a month for access to the app. This didn't just appear from thin air. Therefore someone somewhere has it in mind to invoke such a charge at some point in the future.
The problem is, there is zero clarity on what is happening. You go on to say its all still free, even for the people who got the "test". But there is no smoke without fire.
It's the continuous denial that's actually worse than if tado just said it's now €1 per month, get over it. We might have just said well, it's €12 a year, I can deal with that, or, I won't subscribe and I will find another way. Instead, we're left in a kind of limbo, "will they won't they"? Some are sitting on returnable product and are considering doing so because of the lack of clarity. Some of us are looking at alternatives for the same reason.
Frankly, until there is a proper explanation as to what this thing is all about you will continue to hear from angry people on this forum. tado needs to do itself a favour and come clean, before this news begins to find its way into the mainstream news channels and not just here and Reddit.
Just be honest.
Unfortunately I am one of those who will be returning the system as you offered above. I will be contacting Support at some point this week. All that was needed to avoid this was some clarity.
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@Emcee I note that you say this is part of a marketing initiative.
I received a notification this morning that the app would become subscription only from 19th February. However, I would still be able to control my thermostats manually. In other words the system would become pretty much useless.
When I went to subscribe I found I was required to provide further information. Only at this point did I find that this was a marketing exercise.
First observation: this is an entirely unethical way to conduct marketing. It is, in effect, threatening to remove a service in order to induce a response.
Secondly, I really do wonder about the competence of the people running Tado, a glitch filled, clunky system, that they should consider that this is an appropriate and useful way of conducting market research as opposed to a tactic to alienate and anger it's user base.3 -
@User1234
Ok let's say we did announce it our approach was "€1 per month, get over it", wouldn't it be better if this decision were backed by customer feedback? So far, the feedback we've gotten from this test has been negative across the board (here, Reddit, Facebook groups, etc…). This will help our management team make an informed decision on how to move forward. As you've pointed out, I don't make these decisions, but I can confirm with you that most customer-facing employees at tado° predicted that the feedback would be negative. Now there is tangible proof, which is better than mere predictions.2 -
If you rollout this, I'll consider to totally dump your system. Charging extra for the schedules or remote TRV control, makes the whole system just like any other non-smart TRVs we know for ages. If I would like to have a simple TRV that I can manually operate, I'd buy one in a DIY store for 6-7 euros not 80-90 per piece.
Tado hardware is more than overpriced. The whole thing was that people were buying your pricey products (including myself) because the basics were working without any subscriptions, just out of the box.
Personally it was why I choose tado in the first place.
If you strip it down from the app, how do you tell people to buy your gear instead them picking the most basic heating product your competition makes, which costs a fraction of tado and works fine offline with Google home or homekit via ZigBee or matter? They will literally give more for less.
Many of us told you years ago that we don't need your servers. The problem is - you made a mistake already in the developing phase to relay fully on internet connectivity. If the system could operate mostly offline, maintaining the schedules, you would save money on servers and your customers would be more than happy having a reliable hardware that works.
To add up the constant hidden information about what tweaks and tricks could be run via customer support to tailor the system to my needs and setup, my opinion about tado is getting worse every year.
Paid app will be as we say in my country "the nail to your coffin".
And please don't say it's a test. We all know how it will end. The server problems and lags we faced last year are the cause of such (mis)communication.
Seriously - a test that nowhere says it's a test?
We've been there when you introduced paid geofencing with the V3 bridge.3 -
It's not just that. It's the way that you have done it.
To get a message, first thing this morning that, in effect, the service is changing in two days time unless you start paying as a pretext to conduct market research is unethical.
Tado has enough of a reputation problem as it is. And it is little wonder if this is a reflection on the competence of the people running the company.7 -
Communication is key. Paid core functionnality on a premium priced product (even on the downgraded X version) will kill tado.
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Emcee wrote:
"Again, the people affected retained full access to the tado° App with no charge.
Where have you seen / read that this is not a test?
In the first post message states clearly: we are introducing a fee…" so I rather should ask:
Where have you seen / read that this is a test?
There is no question/opinion/test nowhere, it is clear statement - period.
You have only one option - to introduce this fee to NEW customers whose confirmed and agreed to this. All other customers like me that bought Your system BEFORE this announcement should remain free acces as long as they wish. You cannot change the rules during a game.
It is clear that board is trying to monetize the shareholders investment and they have right to do it but play by the rules! If NEW customers will agree to pay everything will be OK, don't mess with old customers as 1 Eur or Pound is not worth of internet bad opinion storm that You get after.
I hope that I will not have to return Your system as it works perfectly, but I will do it if this fee affects me. It is not about the money as 1 Eur or $ is not much, but just for the rules as this is not what I agreed for. There is still something called business ethics, remember that.
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"Ok let's say we did announce it our approach was "€1 per month, get over it", wouldn't it be better if this decision were backed by customer feedback? So far, the feedback we've gotten from this test has been negative across the board (here, Reddit, Facebook groups, etc…). This will help our management team make an informed decision on how to move forward."
If your management team needed to do this elaborate 'test' to find out that users would not want to pay for a service that is currently free… well, that's not a great look.
I absolutely would not have paid a penny for a system that required a subscription for basic heating functions.
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I think we should cool it a bit and look at what’s happening. Tado clearly want input on this idea and boy are they getting it. Kudos to @Emcee for showing up here in the face of so much push back.
That said this is very disappointing. Like many I bought tado knowing there was no subscription and I paid a premium for the hardware. If tado feels the need to introduce a subscription because of rising costs, that’s understandable from a business perspective but I think customers need more options.
Have tado considered a firmware update that adds matter to existing devices so we can use them with other platforms? That would give us choice to use platforms without costs and would effectively remove the overhead from tado’s servers.
@Emcee I trust you when you say this is a test - but you only test things you want to learn. Some transparency into what the subscription options could be and future rollout plans would go some way to helping us understand the full picture.1 -
"This will help our management team make an informed decision on how to move forward."
No it won't, because your results are almost certainly invalid.
You'd have to be insane to simply add a message to the app for existing users saying you will be charging them in two days time or locking them out of their apps. Hence what you are market testing does not reflect how you would introduce a fee in practice and the test is not valid.
Typically you would warm existing users up over email, better communicate why it is being done, even offer something in return. Tado should have mocked up the options and sent them out in a questionnaire to users. You can then actually get some proper feedback on how best to introduce the charge, the level it should be at, the criteria to use (eg. Tado X only) etc.
In some ways I'm glad Tado did this, because something that may actually have had a chance now (hopefully) won't get done. I even wonder if someone internally was instructed to run the exercise, and deliberately made sure it returned an invalid result. In which case, please pass on my thanks!
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You've concentrated on the least problematic part of the issue.
It's the WAY tado went about it that's the issue. I said it would have been better to tell us it's happening rather than fuss about with these "tests". As I clearly said, its the complete lack of clarity and the confusion tado caused that's the bigger issue.
Just look at the results from this "test". Tado has alienated a whole group of their users who are now ready to dump their systems all over €1 a month. Is that a good look? Does that make any sense whatsoever?
I read that they're conducting research 'just like other companies', but I can tell you now, in the 30 years I've been in business, I've never seen research done in this cack-handed way. This is not the way to do it, period. I would suggest what the right way is, but its too late, you've shot yourselves in the foot with many of your customers and word is getting around.
I don't know who's in charge of this "test", but they should be sacked.
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I agree, it is a worst possible way to do it.
If subscription is way to go, it is still possible to do it even with some old customers but consider giving them some functionality for this fee like open widows detection. Of course they will need to agree and still have option to remain as it is, but it would be a simple trade: pay and get sth for it.
I can pay 1Eur just for open windows detection, no problem. I don't need it but that I can do to keep all this running.
Lot of customers will understand Your arguments but they need to have choice and get sth for this fee.
BTW I get empty newsletters from tado since few days - this also doesn't look professional.
Looks like You really need new communication with customers, seriously.
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So I bought and paid for the hardware a few years ago. I paid more for Tado due to the features that were sold to me at the time. Reducing those features for me unless I pay this ransom sounds pretty illegal to me. If there had beena subscreiption when I was looking at the hardware I absolutely would not have bought Tado. If you go ahead with this I will absolutely move to a difference ecosystem and make sure I tell as many people as possible about it. At the very least existing users should be grandfathered in on a free scheme. We signed up not expecting a subscription.
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Huh?
Now posts are disappearing?
So again
If you rollout this, I'll consider to totally dump your system. Charging extra for the schedules or remote control, makes the whole system just like any other non-smart TRVs we know for ages. If I would like to have a simple TRV that I can manually operate, I'd buy one in a DIY store for 6-7 euros not 80-90.
Tado hardware is more than overpriced. I have paid the price because I knew that out of the box, I have all the options I need available at no extra cost.
If you strip the hardware down from the app, how do you tell people to buy your gear instead them picking the most basic heating product your competition makes, which costs a fraction of tado and works fine offline with Google home or homekit via ZigBee or matter?
Many of us told you years ago that you online dependency is wrong. The problem is - you made a mistake already in the developing phase to relay fully on internet connectivity. If the system could operate mostly offline, maintaining the schedules, you would save money on servers and your customers would be more than happy having a reliable hardware that works.
To add up the constant hidden information about what tweaks and tricks could be run via customer support to tailor the system to my needs and setup, my opinion about tado is getting worse every year.
Paid app will be as we say in my country "the nail to your coffin".
And please don't say it's a test. We all know how it will end. The server problems and lags we faced last year are the cause of such (mis)communication.
Seriously - a test that nowhere says it's a test?
We've been there when you introduced the paid geofencing for V3 equipment.5 -
This mindset is just insane to me. I had this pop up in my iOS TestFlight version of the app this morning. Nowhere did I see that it was a test. I received no prior notification it was a test.
This experience has overwritten my 4+ years of previous experience with my Tado system to the point I want to remove it and put my old system in.
If this truly was a test, why didn’t Tado do market research like. Every. Other. Company. Ever. It makes absolutely zero sense to tackle a test in this way and damage your brand irreparably.
I hope some whizz kid figures out how to reverse engineer your kit and you get shut out of it, it’s the least the community can do for you at this point.
BTW, your support is one of the worst I’ve had the misery of dealing with, and the system has real basic limitations you would not expect of a smart heating platform.8 -
@Emcee I have been a Tado evangelist for many years now and I've lost count of the number of families I've helped install your products but if this happens I will NEVER recommend your system again. If you want to do this for NEW customers, where they KNOW what they are signing up for then fine, but it would be disgraceful if you inflict this on your existing customer base. This is classic bait and switch and should be deplored.
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As someone wise (Louis Rossmann) once said, "this sounds like a you problem, not a me problem"…
But now I have lost trust, if Tado say they have heard the community, I don't know if I can trust this won't become an issue in the future. This product is proprietary and has 'vendor lock-in', which makes me concerned, especially as this angle is financial in focus.
The only thing I can think of from Tado is fixing the route cause and opening the platform. IMO Tado's Matter implementation has not done this. If external services are becoming costly (you problem), fix the reliance on external services. I can think of many ways of doing this, as has other vendors.
IMO Tado's Matter implementation is poor, with known issues. In its current state it isn't open and coexistance isn't feasable. Maybe if Tado has a fully open and local platform, then cloud services can become an extra, but you have been selling this as a complete system, with cloud services.
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The fact that Tado is even “testing” this change is a very worrying sign as it shows they are thinking about it. That means either:
1. Tado are financially struggling and need more cash. Given Tado products are basically useless without Tado servers, Tado struggling should concern everyone
2. Tado HQ and marketing are too incompetent to listen to common sense (and probably their own employees) about how well this “test” would be received. Equally concerning. Imagine thinking it was worthwhile to see if your customers would react well to being told “we will remove access to core features of the hardware you bought for £100s if you don’t start sending us cash each month”.
If I wasn’t already years out of my return window, I would be long gone just at the noise that Tado might be even considering this. That’s without even considering the fact that the products themselves aren’t exactly flawless..9 -
How is this a test? If you wanted to know if your customers was interested in new way for you to monetary your service and products, you use questionnaire. You don't lie to your customers and make them believe that they suddenly have to pay for something they already have paid for once, which is false advertisement and illegal in my country. I now regret buying into Tado, and will recommend the competitors to my friends and family :(
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Serious request, give us real local control (local API) and I’ll never strain your servers again.
Echo the comments of others. If this goes through this will completely kill the brand. ☹️7 -
This is shocking if implemented ! Will be moving out to new system if it happens :o0
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FYI, I’m in the UK and today I’m officially locked out of the app without subscription. So this is not a test! Previously I could dismiss the warning, now there is no way to circumvent. Very cheesed off to say at least, this will blow up for Tado!11
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Product manager for a big software company here. This is a really bad managed situation.
If this is a test, you really don’t know how to test willingness to pay for your products. This is a really bad designed test.
Either way, this is a really really wrong product decision. Putting the most basic features behind a pay wall just visualize that you don’t understand the market and the users. What you are seeing in this forum is what you will get, people will leave the product. But the worse thing is that your are blocking new users to come to your product.
Your are already damaging your brand. This is becoming viral in Reddit and other forums. Your tam is not huge. You are making it worse.
Stop as soon as you can. Apologize. And find other ways to monetize your product or cover your costs. This is killing you and enabling competitors to offer a better option.5 -
This stupid "test" has gone too far, people are getting locked out now :/ Probably someone went a little bit too far with developing the UI modal, kinda you know like it was going to be implemented :D
This has been beyond poorly handled by Tado, it's time to turn off the "test" and throw the idea in the bin. Ya'll messed this one up bad.
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@Emcee Congratulations. Because of your company’s appalling attempt at marketing, I’ve now deleted my account and reset all my devices to be sent back. You wanted to make an impact on your server costs, here you go. Goodbye fellow Tado customers. I wish you all the best in finding your alternative.6
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@Disgruntl3dUK are you using the testflight version?
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we're all locked out now in the UK, yet tado still insists this is a test. Tado, how do we pass this test then, so we can use the app of the system we bought subscription-free? Unless it was a test to test our patience and gullibility? I bought thermostat via amazon, I'll be contacting them to process a return for a full refund, as the product is now unusable and useless. Well done, tado, well done.
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