Which system for Vaillant ecoFIT pure 418?
Hi, I was pondering between Hive or Tado and inclined towards Tado as it seems to be cheaper and can set min max temperatures. Below is my system:
- Vaillant ecoFIT pure 418 system boiler with only 6 radiators
- S Plan motorised valves to serve Hot Water cylinder and boiler
- The zone valves are switched by
wired room thermostat and British Gas UP2 (Picture attached) - Hot Water cylinder is controlled by an on-off thermostat.
- It's an old school wiring centre next to Hot Water cylinder.
- At the moment the room thermostat is wired in living room but I plan to replace it with a wireless thermostat and move it to hallway.
Can you confirm Tado is more superior to Hive and if so which one I should get? Many thanks.
Comments
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Hello. It is true that Vallaint can operate in both relay (R01) mode with Tado, and in digital (D07) eBus mode which brings full modulation. There is are two hurdles to be overcome:
- The HW cylinder must be able to engage the boiler with an eBus temperature sensor.
- The Central Heating loop must also be able to have an eBus interface.
Now Vaillant offer solutions which seem to work but allow minimal control by end users.
Tado offers thermostats and controllers for CH side of the system, interfacing with eBus, but it doesnt offer a thermostat or thermal sensor for HW tanks to interface with eBus. That is a challenge.
To get over these hurdles, there are a few channels you could consider:
- Vaillant offers a wiring centre, the VR65, which handles S Plan motorised valves, and transfers modulation capacity for eBus control. Tado has interfaced with the VR65 in the past. However you'd need Tado Support to write back to you to give you full instructions to interface with your boiler through a VR65 interface. If they say it cant be done (which is odd, because a few on this community have done it) then look at the next option. There is a possibility that the VR65 is no longer being sold (a position derived from web searches).
- Vaillant also sells a digital protocol converter, the VR33, which enables eBus to be converted to Opentherm and back, thus enabling Opentherm controls to manage the boiler fully and digitally. Thus, technically, you could then deploy well tested a Opentherm interface for HW Cylinders eg. CP4-HW- OpenTherm® Programmable Cylinder Thermostat from EPH Controls. This would overcome the major hurdle, enabling you to establish control the HW zone valve through that device. The Tado [X series or V3 Tado EU version] wireless receiver, can then talk Opentherm to the VR33, whilst also managing the CH zone valve through a Tado wired thermostat.
In theory the Nest family should also work with the VR33. A lot of people have done it, but one has to get the detailed wiring right.
I have never had any direct experience of Nest support teams, or of their willingness to engage end users with the complex settings that occur in Ireland and the UK - which seem to be more complex than the settings in mainland Europe. What we do have here is a straight talking relationship between community moderators, volunters like me and the tech people at Tado. After a year of volunteering here, have noted that whilst there are ongoing worries about the speed of the support team's response especially in the winter months (we sometimes we need to push them) the liason officers at Tado do not lie to us and, what I do respect is, they admit when there's been a mistake. Some of their tech officers take the time to respond to our queries with speed and precision.
@Emcee would you be open to double checking on the validity of VR65 and V33 interfaces? This community's threads seems to agree with that logic, however on Reddit opinions differ.
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@policywonk . Thank you so much for your detailed note. Now I get better idea on the difference between Hive and Tado, especially on open vented system. I expected for an equivalent of Hive which just on/off the port valves and let the HW cylinder on/off thermostat do its job. But if the boiler is old Greenstar 30CDI Classic Regular, will Tado work or just Hive?0
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Being open vented doesn't make a difference. What's important is the mode in which you engage the boiler. The benefits of digital controls are significant.
Tado will handle both modes on that boiler.
However the challenge of you want digital, is having the system boiler rigged to talk in EMS BUS and at the same time have the zone valves switched. The main hurdle is getting an EMS BUS VERSION 1 sensor for the HW tank. If WB can do that we can fix the rest most likely.
Recommend you contact WB and tell them that you want to install a Tado controller so you need their advice on what WB bits are needed for a wiring centre, specufically to enable at least the HW tank to be engaged in EMS BUS. and as a second prioity, central heating to operate in EMS BUS. Ask them to put their suggestions in writing if that's possible. We won't hold them to account but we can think objectively when we see their suggestions.
Keep us updated. Others will benefit.0 -
@policywonk I called WB but they don't want to help with 3rd party products. Otherwise a WB gas safe has to contact them but even in that case I am not sure how much they will help with '3rd party' mentality… But one thing I learned is it's very complicated to try to engage Tado with Greenstar 30CDI and so not worth it. And it sounds like all WB current smart controllers don't go as far as Tado to control HW from your phone app, which encourages me more towards Tado.
What's more practical for me now is to implement on my Vaillant and it has to wait till next week to call them as they closed at 3:30 on Fridays.
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An idea. Sorry I find it troubling that customer care isnt bothered.
Try this question and return to WB. Ask them if they have a specific product, or a recommended product, which can talk directly to the boiler in eBUS mode and which enables a Hot Water Cylinder to receive heat and which will also control the zone valve for the HW cylinder.
If they can address this specific question, we may be able to form a solution.
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@policywonk I looked again at V3+ on https://www.screwfix.com/p/tado-v3-wireless-heating-hot-water-smart-thermostat-starter-kit-white/141kt?ref=SFAppShare . It states it's suitable to all boilers. It seems to control all relay with old wirings. No concern on eBUS or anything technical at all. But the feature I find missing is to be able to set a temperature limit. Can you confirm?0
