Three channel (Two CH Zones + HW Tank) - Wiring help
Hi folks
I've just moved into a house which has had a three channel dumb-ESR setup: channel 1 was downstairs CH, channel 2 was upstairs CH, and then the hot water, each which I could control independently.
I've just installed a Smart Wireless thermostat downstairs and a smart wired upstairs.
It all works and fires up, but I've lost the ability to just turn on the upstairs heating separately, so now with the smart devices installed:
Smart Wireless can do hot water and downstairs, but if I turn on just the upstairs zone from the app, it turns on/off both the CH zones and not just upstairs.
I assume the problem is the wiring in the upstairs Wired thermostat - at the moment I mapped the Live to the COM and the NO to the NO, and the Neutral to Parking 1. Should I be using the A/+/- terminals instead, and if so, in which order?
Have included a photo of my previous ESR thermostat wiring.
Comments
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Do not touch those terminals! I think there’s even a sign on them warning you not to unless it’s a low voltage connection.
Can you explain what you’ve installed? I’m guessing there’s a wireless receiver for one heating zone and hot water and a wired thermostat for the other heating zone?
If I were you, the first thing I would do is Google ‘Tado smart thermostat manual’ so you can understand what the terminals mean. It doesn’t sound like a wiring issue though, I would suspect it’s an issue with setting the correct zone controller.0 -
Ha, thanks @johnnyp78 - warning received!
Correct - downstairs is the Wireless Smart Kit V3+, which has the two CH wires (one up, one down) connected to the CH NO terminal, and the HW to the HW NO terminal. There's then the Smart Wireless Thermostat which came with that, which I use for downstairs CH and HW. Upstairs is a single wired for the other heating zone, as you've mentioned.
I tried that search and it came up with the professional installer manuals first and then a video on how to install that (where the chap links to the +/- ones to set up as a modulating thermostat)
Would it be an in-app setting to change the zone controller?
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The manuals are just generic manuals with wiring guides in. No idea about the video. Don’t be tempted unless you have a digital or low voltage connection or you stand a good chance of damaging the circuit board in your tado device.
Zone controller: settings > rooms and devices > select room > scroll down to bottom. Assuming Tado haven’t renamed their devices to something different, Downstairs rooms should be the wireless receiver. Upstairs should be the smart thermostat.0 -
Thank you, very helpful.
As I see it in the app now, the downstairs is assigned to the zone controller, and upstairs only let's me choose that same zone controller or be unassigned (no call out to the wired thermostat by name)
I assume changing it to unassigned means it will 'ask itself' for instructions, and I can use the schedule feature to connect with the wider home?
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No, if you click on the option there’s an explanation! Tado also has a lot of support documents on it if you really want a thorough explanation. Unassigned means the room cannot call for heat. You don’t want this if you want to have heating in that zone as it means nothing will operate the zone valve and you will be cold.
If there’s no option for the wired thermostat to be zone controller I’m afraid you probably need to go to Tado support. I think some people have managed to make it a zone controller by uninstalling it and reinstalling but I’m not sure.
Or you could try this https://support.tado.com/en/articles/4836146-my-smart-thermostat-is-not-shown-as-a-zone-controller-what-can-i-do0 -
Thanks and sorry this took so long, the Wired system didn't have its own zone, so I deleted it from the home and set it up as a new device. Weirdly as soon as the boiler system powered on, it came up with it's own zone and we're up and running.
BUT - now I've lost the in-app hot water control on the downstairs Wireless system!
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What do you mean? Is there no hot water control on your app? You might need to reconfigure the wireless receiver to make sure Tado knows you have a an s/y plan hot water system. Using the same link for the manuals as before, look at the one for the uk wireless receiver. Should show you how to configure it.0
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Yes, so what's happened is:
If I set up the Wired with its own zone controller, the app can do zoned heating but deletes the hot water control, OR
if I set up the wireless controller again, the app deletes the new zone I made for the Wired thermostat but hot water is there
(each time I had to delete the other device and add it back to the home).
I only found the professional manuals before, but will see if I can find how to make sure its set up for an S plan system
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The ‘professional’ manuals are just manuals. Don’t delete the devices, look at configuring the wireless receiver - look at section 6 https://cdn.brandfolder.io/607DGEMS/as/tqh86npbjjhws5gwkxfncbfh/104172-DIGITAL-WRP01IB01-INSTALLER_MANUAL-TA-UK-00-V2.pdf
Tado has made this whole process needlessly complicated but hopefully that should get you two zone and hot water control.1 -
Thank you - that's the same PDF I was reading.
The wireless receiver was already set to an S-Plan system with the green LED, and even with that, there's no more configuration I can do in the app to the wireless receiver.
The best I'm getting is one zone in any configuration.
I wonder if it's worth uninstalling everything in the morning and starting from scratch again.
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It’s a good question. You could also download the Tado pro app to see what it says about your configuration but that might be adding layers of complexity. Think you might need to ask Tado support what’s going on though, it sounds like a configuration error.1
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Yes good shout - might give that a try now.
And as before, thank you for your help @johnnyp78 - very much appreciated.
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Opening this up again:
Spoke to Tado Support who config'd my Wired TS to have its own zone, so now two zone controllers: the receiver with the Wireless V3+ kit, and a Wired TS
But still I have the same issue: if I set the Up CH to be triggered by the Zone 2 controller (Wired TS), it doesn't trigger anything in the system - app will say its on, but the valves for that specific zone don't activate, and no heating upstairs.
However, if I set it to use Zone 1, I can get heat up and down, but not separately.
TL;DR - I can use downstairs CH and hot water independently of (and with) upstairs CH, but still not upstairs CH independently
So, do I have to buy the TRVs and link them to the zone to trigger the upstairs rooms now, instead of them all having the same heating loop (which I would have preferred)
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I’m not following your diagram. How is the wired thermostat connected to your receiver? They should both be wired to separate zone valves if you have a multi zone heating system.1
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Yes, I was thinking the same thing, the physical connection of the wired stat. should be back to the appropriate valve surely . . .
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I think I've confused myself too with that diagram!
Yes, sorry - there is a separate valve for each: Upstairs CH, Downstairs CH, HW. Downstairs CH and HW both go into Wireless V3+, and then the Wired controls Upstairs CH.
I have attached a photo of both wired setups below - note there are two wires going into the CH NO (but one in black and hard to see!)
I don't know where in the process the zones are wired in, all that I know is that they can kick in when called for, but the upstairs can't work independently, sorry.
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That makes more sense. Check the wiring to your upstairs zone valve, then check that the valve itself hasn’t got stuck. It’s a common problem though I think it’s unlikely in your case if you can still get heating there. Might be worth checking all your wiring again. Other than that it sounds like it’s still a configuration problem on Tado’s end.1
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I'm inclined to think so - I double checked the wiring using the previous ESI thermostats/programmer, and they all work fine independently in each zone/HW, capable of opening each valve on demand.
The only help I've had from Tado's team is to enable the wired TS a separate zone controller (it doesn't do it when I install/add it to the home setup) - but then its locked down to that.
Photos attached below
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Hello majik9911, did you get the multi zone heat control to work? From your description I am about to install the same tado set up. I have two zone separate thermostat control, upstairs and downstairs. I intend to use a wireless tado thermostat downstairs and a wired tado thermostat upstairs. So I think it's the same set up as you were trying to make work. Did you crack it?
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Hi @MikeRanger - so from other forums posted here (most noticeably, this one https://community.tado.com/en-gb/discussion/9114/are-3-zones-possible#latest) I am to believe that the three-channel issue is in the wiring centre, and not the Tados, i.e. getting the two stats/valves to work and call for heat from the boiler independently of each other, since in most new builds they bundle them in together and power them the same.
It's taken me an age, but I've finally found an electrician who's willing to look at it, and coming on Friday to assess, so I can feedback then.
There are also these YouTube videos which I found helpful, just not the courage to do electrical work myself!
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Thanks for the follow up. Yes please do let me know how it goes with the electrician. I will try tomorrow to install my system and I'll let you know the outcome. Cheers.0
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Hello @majik9911 ,
I just now finished installing the tado system and it works fine with the two zone control and hot water control. One thing I had to change was that I had to use two wired smart thermostats to control the separate heating zones. I'm sending the wireless thermostats back for a refund. Also, when I first turned on the system it would show control for hot water. To fix this I had to configure the wireless receiver as a S and Y plan controller and then all was good.
I hope your electrician can resolve your problem. Good luck 🤞
Mike
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Hi @MikeRanger - thanks for the update!
I bought a spare wired TS too but haven't had the time to put it all together.
Did you have to change anything in the wiring centre when you did your set up? And how did you set up the zones/zone controllers in the app? I might have a few more questions about your programmer wiring too if its not too much hassle.
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Hello @majik9911,
I kept the wiring the same as was with the original programmer. I sent TADO support a picture of the existing controller/programmer wiring and the model and they sent me back to me with instructions on how to wire up the TADO wireless receiver. When I configured the wireless receiver, as per the instructions in the box, for S&Y Plan all of the required tiles just appeared in the TADO app. I didn't have to to do anything else. I did rename the thermostats to Upstairs and Downstairs to make it easier to identify. You can change the name easily in the app. Please feel free to ask for more help, if I can.0 -
Hi all - just wanted to close this thread with what I did to get a working system.
Recap: new build home with three channel heating system (two CH valves with pre-existing hardwired upstairs and downstairs room thermostat controls, and one HW valve controlled via a hardwired programmer). Problem was to update the system to a smart one, but keep the feature to control each zone/HW independent of each other, so could turn upstairs heating on when needed, downstairs, and HW, etc. Didn't need room-level control (just floor level) so didn't want/need radiator TRVs
Equipment: 1x Tado Wireless Thermostat Starter Kit v3+ with Hot Water Control, 1x Wired Smart Thermostat add-on
Solution: Wireless and Wired Thermostats connected as Tado have recommended (COM/NO connections). Biggest change came when connecting the Wireless Receiver in place of the current programmer, which resulted in the below.
N/L come from perm N/L. Rather than connect both CH cables to CH NO (as was done previously), instead:
Zone 1 (Downstairs CH) is connected to CH COM and controlled by the Wireless Thermostat
Zone 2 (Upstairs CH) bridges L and CH NO
HW is powered by L to HW COM, and HW NO connected as expected.
In-app Zone Controller: Wireless Thermostat uses the Wireless Receiver as the Zone Controller, and Wired Thermostat uses itself as the Zone Controller.
So, after all the tinkering, all are now independently programmable and manually controllable as/when needed, and honestly (touch wood given its a few days in and run through!), the Tado is working brilliantly.
YOUR HEATING WIRING MIGHT BE DIFFERENT SO PLEASE ACKNOWLEDGE THIS MIGHT NOT BE APPLICABLE TO INDIVIDUAL SETUPS!!
Also huge shout out to @MikeRanger for sharing his set up with me, which helped me see where I needed to alter mine.
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