Upgrading from V3+ to X issue
I'm a long time user (9 years) and have recently used the upgrade offer to change to X.
I've purchased the wireless receiver and thermostat kit and 8 trv's. AFAIK the receiver works as a thread border router and so I don't need the bridge X
The receiver is wired to the boiler using opentherm and "appears" connected in the app. However the 3 solid lights do change to solid/off/flashing......which i think means no Internet?
I've tried to install the trv's without success. They temp show connected but go offline and the wireless room stat just hangs at the connecting to the WiFi stage.
I've uninstalled everything and gone back to the V3+ setup for now.
Is there something I'm doing wrong, or are there known issues on installation I need to be aware of.
Comments
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Still waiting for a reply back from support on this after an initial "cut and paste" answer taken from the faq section.
I've tried various ways to get this working, including using my phone as a wifi hot-spot to rule out any home router/Internet issues, and buying the bridge X and putting that into the system.
AFAIK the wireless receiver is wired up correctly as the boiler shows an opentherm connection.
I have smarthings and the bridge, trv's and wireless stat pop up to be installed but not the receiver, should that show up?
Getting really fed up with this now with a lack of response from tado and multiple reinstalls of V3+
Anyone able to shed some light on this before I box it up and send it all back?0 -
Hi Java-Ju,
I have also moved from V3+ to Tado X. I have a Ubiquiti Unifi setup for my wi-fi; this meant I could easily setup a separate IoT network limited to 2,4Ghz only (plus limiting potential outside interference from naughty folk). When I installed my V3+ years ago, I had to forget the other networks on my iphone to stop it finding the best wifi signal; I did this again when installing the Tado X.
My setup (apart from a couple of Tado X wireless receiver issues) was faultless; I am hopeful that the rechargeable pucks and thread/matter will preserve the Tado network in a large stone-built house with thick stone internal walls (V3+ worked after a fashion, but ate batteries and the little internet do-da had to be hung up in a particular spot on the first floor, leading to unsightly cables attached to wall). Much tidier setup now, just waiting for the firmware to catchup with V3+ offerings (pre-heat etc).
kr,
Vernon
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Hi Vernon, thanks for the reply.
I too have the ubiquiti unifi network with pro6 AP's and also set with an IoT network. ( My son is the IT expert not me)
Without the bridge X in the system, setup would always fail at the checking network connectivity stage. If I add the bridge X into it, then I can get the thermostats to connect but still have no boiler control even though everything says connected in the app.
The wireless receiver X is wired to the boiler and was a straightforward swap for the V3+ extension that it replaces. The wiring is basically the same and the boiler shows opentherm so I'm sure it's wired correctly. I can't help but think the receiver might be faulty?
I can go back to the V3+ everytime without issues but it's a bind having to reinstall everything and setup the schedules again.
The V3 has been a reliable system bar the odd trv disconnect but I was getting fed up with the constant AA battery order and only some of the trv's were new enough for rechargeable ones.
Thanks again for the reply
Julian1 -
Hi Java,
Have you remembered to go into each room setting (not radiator thermostats/wireless stats) in the Tado App and select your Tado X Wireless Receiver as the Zone Controller … the number probably starts with TR plus10 digits. Especially important if you bought the Wired Room Thermostat (starts with RU+10 digits). Not trying to teach you to suck eggs …
Also, I believe there is a specific order to setup your Tado X system … I recall that the Tado X matter routers may have been first. It was some time ago, so worth a google?
If these prompts don’t work, then YES … your Wireless Receiver Relay may display correctly but doesn’t click on (in my case, I returned 2 receivers that didn’t switch off the heating … there is a thread on Reddit about tapping gently behind the relay connections on the V3+ which worked on my Tado X second receiver but Tado wanted it back to have a look). Might be that the manufacturer (Chinese) used the same supplier for both relay boards … conjecture on my side. My third receiver worked as advertised on fitment yesterday, I hope now to have the same reliability that I personally enjoyed with the V3+ (apart from eating batteries and iffy network in our stone-built house with thick stone internal walls). Once Tado X has similar firmware to V3+ that includes pre-heating etc then I will be chuffed.
kr,
Vern
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If I strip the install back to its most basic setting and forget about ising the trv's for now then I have just the wireless reciever wired to the boiler and wireless thermostat that connects to it.
That's where my issue starts. The receiver installs "correctly" according to the app and shows connected with 3 lights on the unit. If I then try to install the thermostat, it will find the device and generate matter credentials for it but will always fail at the checking network connectivity stage. If I then exit setup, it does show as connected in the app, but the network symbol on the thermostat display still has a cross on it.
One thing I didn't do, that you did, is forget all the other networks on my phone first. I might try that on its own but I could do with a few avenues to chase before deleting everything again!
Julian0 -
I have found the Wireless Receiver’s 2,4Ghz WIFI is fragile (we have a Ubiquiti Express connected as a AP 8m from the receiver that is connected to the boiler tucked in the corner, fixed the receiver Im above & right of boiler), however the matter/thread is rock solid … using 2 Tado X matter routers plus various other matter routers that include Apple Speakers and power sockets (we have a large French stone farmhouse with 60cm internal stone walls).
I note that you mention generating matter codes … are you using Linux (I have dabbled with Home Assistant & Mini-Card/Comps), Android (my wife’s preference), Windows or macOS/IOS (I use Windoze if I must, but found the install easy using my iPhone after ensuring phone only had the required 2,4Ghz network available to stop the phone seeking 5Ghz plus bluetooth on)? With Apple, the system appeared in Home after using Tado App to install all … Tado X matter router first, then receiver, then ancillaries. I checked matter connectivity using the EVE App (I have some of their gear that includes Matter Router power outlets) which I have found very useful for checking on one page most, if not all, manufacturers connectivity.
The rest of our house has U7 Pro Wall APs with a UCG-Max running just the Wi-Fi networks & VLANs (our security cameras are hard-wired to a Ubiquiti UNVR), with the power provided through a APC Smart UPS + NMC2 with line-interactive surge protection (so smooths a “dirty” voltage if present & surge protection, for prolonged voltage outage the NAS etc are shutdown in designed manner). As far as I know, our 3-phase electric supply is clean (& more importantly “balanced”) but I hate spending money replacing stuff that can be avoided.
My knowledge base comes from a house electrician course on leaving the RAF after 36 years, 6 years as a aeronautical engineer and 30 years flying (requiring the occasional light tap of relays feeding my Navigator Panel). My youngest son is currently in his final year of a “Computer Management” degree in France, so a great help with Linux (& cheap).
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Ours is a straightforward semi with the receiver in the hall and in direct line of site to the nearest ap mounted high up in the kitchen.
Everything is being installed using an Android phone and nothing else.
Julian1 -
I only mutter about matter/thread because our sitting room (par example) is 40m away from the boiler in the garage. Your example does suggest a dud receiver … once you get through to a human in the Tado ChatBot team, they are very helpful & replacements arrive quickly.
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I've purchased the wireless receiver and thermostat kit and 8 trv's. AFAIK the receiver works as a thread border router and so I don't need the bridge X
You need a Thread Router, which is either Bridge X or the Heatpump Optimizer X. All other devices by tado ARE NOT thread routers.
Of course you could use one from Apple, thus not needing one from tado.
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Here is some of my Thread network from the EVE App, helps explain. The “Boiler” Router is just a power socket that is a Matter Router, I have daisy linked them across, with redundancy, to hopefully ensure a solid network. The unknown routers at the bottom is because I haven’t bothered to allocate them within the Home App, but they all contribute to a robust system by “shaking hands”
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According to the Tado website....
The Bridge X is interchangeable (as a Thread border router) with any of the following devices:
tado° Heat Pump Optimizer X
tado° Wireless Receiver X
Apple Home Hub: Apple TV 4K (2nd generation or 3rd generation 128 GB), HomePod (2nd generation) or HomePod mini
To extend the range of your network, you can add multiple Thread border routers, including the tado° Bridge X.
From that i shouldn't need one, however i do have one and it still doesn't work?
Also the wireless thermostat should still connect with the receive shouldn't it?0 -
Did you sort out your Tado Bridge X first? Using the Tado App with everything else deleted. The App installation instructions are very good at ensuring you start with the correct kit (after deleting your previous Tado V3+ setup.
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According to the Tado website....
The Bridge X is interchangeable (as a Thread border router) with any of the following devices:
tado° Heat Pump Optimizer X
tado° Wireless Receiver X
Apple Home Hub: Apple TV 4K (2nd generation or 3rd generation 128 GB), HomePod (2nd generation) or HomePod mini
To extend the range of your network, you can add multiple Thread border routers, including the tado° Bridge X.
Where do you see that? When I go here , it says:
You won't need an additional Bridge X if: • You already have a tado° Bridge X • You already have a Thread border router by another brand • You already have a tado° Heat Pump Optimizer You will need an additional Bridge X if: • You don’t yet have a Thread border router in your home • You have a larger home in which the Bridge X will serve as a signal amplifierIt says nothing about a tado X Wireless Thermostat being sufficient.
You will need a Thread Border Router, you currently don't seem to have one (at least not by tado).
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Its here on the Tado help pages.
https://help.tado.com/en/articles/9090800-do-i-need-a-tado-bridge-x
I do have a Bridge X that i bought after to try, but I did try that and even though i could connect the stats, I couldn't get the boiler to fire.
I do value your input and everyone else's as there is conflicting advice on the help pages and as yet nothing from support apart from a cut and paste from the help pages
Julian0 -
Interesting. They seem to interchange "Programmer" and "Wireless Receiver" and that is a device I do not know as it seems to be only sold in the UK and indeed is also a Thread Router. That white thing (in the background):
Do you have that?
Anyhow, when you go to your tado app (Web or phone), do you see the bridge being connected to the Internet?
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It sounds obvious to me, but I’m not in the house with you … but if you only have the Tado X Wireless Receiver connected then you need to manually press the boiler demand button on the top of the receiver because I don’t see anyway on my App to remotely set the Wireless Reiver unless you can allocate it to a room (my 2 Bridge X & the Wireless Receiver sit outside the rooms, see 2nd photo below). That should light up and send the command through the relay to the boiler (@Emcee might butt in if I’ve got this wrong, the Android App may have different settings to the Apple Tado App). After setting the Wireless Receiver to the App, did you then configure the receiver to your phone (See 3rd photo).
To send a remote heat command from the rooms then you need first the Tado Bridge X, scanning that QR code should set you down the right road whilst connecting/allocating the radiator thermostats and/or Wireless Thermostats to rooms (see photo above). Then scheduling them as you would with the V3+.
My Tado App main page looks like this (as you would expect, pretty similar to V3+):
You’ll notice that the boiler heats the room a touch higher then kicks in again below your temperature set in your schedule.
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So yes I have the receiver pictured, it comes in the kit with the wireless room stat.
With the receiver connected i can press the boost button and the boiler fires as intended. The problem comes when I try to add the wireless stat to the receiver. This should be OK as a basic setup as its sold like that, however the setup fails at the checking network connectivity stage.
If I add the bridge X in then I can get the stats to connect but not fire the boiler. Maybe i need to reinstall everything and check which zone controller is being assigned in the app?
I'll try that tonight
Thanks for everyone's input, I'm slowly getting it to sink in lol0 -
I’ll stop putting my long screwdriver in. Good luck, it is worth the effort (once they have pre-heat installed like V3+).
kr,
Vern
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I'm not hopeful but fingers crossed mate, appreciate your insight.
I've been using Tado since 2016.....it does feel like the customer is beta testing the X version
Julian1 -
Ok so first off can I say thank you to you both for taking the time to help and posting some very useful and informative information. This matter/thread stuff is all new to me and taking some digesting!
It appears to be working, qmunity was right, the Bridge X IS needed AND has to be installed first. The info on the Tado website that I posted is plain wrong or I have a malfunctioning receiver. I guess the fact that there is no Matter branding or Qr code on the box means it's wrong information.
It's all very confusing and the Tado website should guide you on the set-up you need!
I'm just glad it's working now as I've spent more time than I care to think about going backwards and forwards!
Julian1 -
“Also, I believe there is a specific order to setup your Tado X system … I recall that the Tado X matter routers may have been first. It was some time ago, so worth a google?”
My second post (and subsequent, I thought you had researched that and moved on; hence my other stuff posted). When I first unwrapped the Tado products I read that the matter routers should be installed first; so the QR code printed on the card inside the top lid of the box mentions this (easy to miss but oh so useful).
Why this wasn’t the first port of call for the Tado ChatBot Team beggars belief.
👍 Glad it worked out for you! Hopefully will improve with updates like “Pre-Heat” 🤨
kr,
Vernon
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Yes you did tbf but I was working on the assumption the receiver was able to operate as the matter router due to the info i took from the website! I was a little sceptical though if I'm honest as all the "X" stuff apart from the receiver was picked up by smartthings.
Also there is no hot water control in the app to switch the preheat on and off. Hopefully that will be along soon too.0 -
I was also informed by the ChatBot staff that the Wireless Receiver was matter/thread capable but I was very sceptical of this because I could not find the Matter/Thread symbol anywhere on the first receiver I received, I didn’t check the second and have now looked at the third receiver packaging that is bereft of Matter standard symbology, see last photo (that appears to be working fine, without a tap 😎 whereas all companies that have signed into the standard, they print the symbology on their products; just as your radiator thermostats etc display).
Really, for Tado ChatBot staff this should be part of their Tado X 101 knowledge base! Not looking to blame the individuals below, that is why I have obscured their names, because this appears to be a weak link in the rollout of the Tado X product line that was released in Europe 6 months ago.This is why I always store screenshots if I feel that something is a touch off, like several days of my life that I won’t get back! Scratch that, over a week believing your staff.
Just to reinforce, my current Wireless Room Thermostat packaging (with clear matter/thread symbology)
My third Tado X Wireless Receiver (displays no matter standard symbology; or, The “Built on Thread: requires border router” logo that would mean, if incorporated, that Thread is the only supported network protocol for this device)
Enough, I am old and off to have a kip but this message is very important to current and potential Tado X customers (I was also a Ground/Air military instructor, so I have some idea how to reinforce important messages)
regards,Vernon
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Glad that it is working now.
When I upgraded from v3 to X and still had my gas boiler, I also lost hot water control. tado told me that thy only support on/off and OpenTherm with X and both do not suppot controlling hot water.
Now with my heat pump and HPO X I have hot water control again but honestly I never use it.1 -
So I have problems connecting my Tado Bridge X to my phone (it is on the network and I am using unifi as well). Anything specific that I missed to get the bridge working in the app?
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Hi Mauritsm,
Make sure you only have your 2,4Ghz network (I temporarily deleted my other networks on the phone only so that Apple wouldn’t try and be helpful at the wrong moment) on your phone with bluetooth active; make sure that the Tado X Bridge is the first equipment on your Tado App. If you have jumped the gun, then my advice is to delete that home and start over with the Bridge(s) first. Use the QR code(s), there are 2, on the card inserted in the box lid and follow them faithfully … you may have one or two tries but it does connect (on my iPhone 11 anyway).
A useful App for checking thread network is the Evehome App (see Settings/Thread Network).
kindest regards,
Vernon
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Unifi offers guest networks. And also on the “normal” wifi you can disallow devices to communicate with each other.
Have you checked that?1 -
☝️This!
I have setup 5 vLANS & associated Networks (IoT Network just 2,4Ghz, General Network all, then Lock, Security ending with a time-based access to Guest network for family that denies access to IoT/General/Security … but allows time-based access to Locks Network). Clear as mud? 🤔This normally allows me (although I altered some permissions to see if Unifi was interfering with the adoption of Tado X, it wasn’t) to have an “air gap” between any Chinese manufactured devices (that includes Tado X) , guests and my personal data, Lock (a well known European Company that fabricates within the EU) & Security (UNVR cameras plus Robin doorbell, Dutch fabricated). Bit of a faff, but plenty of helpful folk within the Ubiquiti Forum & Youthtube 😎.
I had been heavily involved in IT (except matter/thread & wifi) on a larger scale, before my spinal cord tumour (and early retirement), that allowed me to live in 2 pleasant European climes (2-3 years apiece) outside my adopted country, France.
As qmunity states. Just a familiarity with the awesome capabilities of Ubiquiti Unifi (unfortunately manufactured in several places outside the States that include the PRC) needed!
regards,
Vern
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Thanks for the helpful info. It seems silly that you actively need to disable 5ghz, but what can I do about it.
Anyway, I’ll try tomorrow with a dedicated IoT network1 -
Mauritsm,
Also check your IPv6 is enabled on your Unifi router, it is required for Matter/Thread use.
Vernon0
