Open Letter with ChatBot support team

Treskelion1959

My apologies for the odd formatting in the document, I wanted this published asap since it might be of interest to all Tado X users.

Saturday 11 January 2025.pdf

Treskelion1959

Saturday 11 January 2025. Discussion over Tado X Wireless Receiver credentials

Let’s start as we mean to go on. I apologise unreservedly to Tado employees and moderators for doubting their statements concerning Tado X Wireless Receiver being matter compliant; however, before Tado gets too excited, let us continue with my observations and Tado’s responses (at the end of this brief, I will offer Tado’s response in full for your perusal, suitably anonymised to protect the individual’s identity online).
1. Although their Tado X eco-system seems to work very well (now that Ihave given up on the Tado X Wireless Receiver (EU) as a flawed unit after my third receiver continues to have a WiFi4 connectivity issue). I have installed the Tado X Smart Thermostat (wired) that works without distraction.
I have not yet tried to include the old V3+ air conditioningcontrol (it is, as I understand from reading the Tado Help Files , the only part of the V3+ eco-system that made it across to be included within Tado X). Certainly an important consideration for us since we are lucky enough to be on a French EJP fixed contract (whets your interest? At the back of the document).

Note from Tado: The V3+ air conditioning control “can not be implemented with the Tado X line yet”.

Really ?!!

2. With respect to Tado X Wireless Receiver (EU), I feel that the product was let down by Help Files being chronically unsupported since launch, further the lack of CSA compliant Thread symbology and codes card within the product was unhelpful to positively identify which part of the dual-pack was CSA compliant (including CSA licenses, Tado X Wireless Receiver does not have a published license at CSA-IOT.org at time of writing) as denoted on the outer box (since all other Tado Matter CSA Thread compliant components had one of the Symbols with Code printed on the card, including the Tado X Wireless Sensor offered within the dual-pack). So I wanted positive confirmation, not conjecture, that both were Thread Border Router compliant. For some, that include me, the CSA compliant cards help with respect to ease of data transfer and security within the home.

Tado's first response: The Wireless Receiver X is a Thread Border Router, but not a Matter device. The reason why there is a Matter Labelling on the package is that in the box with the Wireless Starter Kit X, there are 2 items- Wireless Receiver X which is a Thread Border Router, and a Wireless Temperature Sensor X which is a Matter device.So basically the Wireless Thermostat + The Receiver together create a wireless. Matter thermostat. And the receiver alone is a fully functioning Thread Border Router. The missing thread symbol on the card I will report to the responsible department but it has no functional implication and the Bridge X, (“my input” since missing full title) “Tado X Wireless Receiver EU” and Heat Pump Optimiser all use the same thread and WiFi chips AFAIK. If you are wondering how you can control the wireless receiver via Matter the answer is you don't do it directly instead you control the Wireless thermostat that came with it and then the tado infrastructure makes sure that the receiver follows those settings.

I requested further clarification, doesn’t quite gel with previous answer BUT PROBABLY MORE TO DO WITH LANGUAGE THAN INTENT. Can you please expand, is this a propriety link between the 2 detailed units? Has Tado plans to have their own “open” Thread library (Please see Eve/Settings/Thread for an example or Apple’s Matter accessories).

Tado's further clarification: In Matter, The tado Sensor is seen as a thermostat so a Matter app can send appropriate commands to this Matter device but then the sensor can't execute the commands alone since it is not physically connected to anything. So the receiver needs to be activated, for this to happen there are two layers of communication. Everything is running on thread but one layer is matter and the other is tado°s own that is used whenever we want to call for a function or device that can not be called within the matter standard. So the receiver and its sensor unit are connected via tado's own language using thread technology. (tado tries to use matter over its own language wherever possible to make as many features as possible controllable by third-party apps)

This is a bit simplified in tado°s internal standard the virtual rooms are the controllers while all devices just act as inputs and outputs for example. I hope I could make it more clear but if not please let me know.

Treskelion1959

"Has Tado plans to have their own “open” Thread library (Please see Eve/Settings/Thread for an example or Apple’s Matter accessories).

Tado's response: This may be me just being uninformed if an open thread library is like an open API basically allowing users to write their own applications and call for information from their tado account then the answer is yes but there are a lot of things higher on the list right now (one of which is agreeing on a list that we can guarantee and then sharing it with our customers)

I tried to google the keywords you provided me but i feel like i didn't stumble across the right page so if that's not what an open Thread library is used for please let me know.

3. Communication. Tado’s ChatBot filter before LiveChat or DelayedChat (having said that, Tado’s response to my request for clarification was very quick … couple of hours tops, excluding my additional “helpful” distractions that included pointing out additional out of date or inaccurate Tado documentation). This again has great potential let down by poor documentation on the site. Most folk try and read the FAQs and Help files or, with other companies, firmware updates without wasting the companies most valuable asset: the human interface. The Tado X Wireless Receiver’s woefully shoddy documentation at launch on the site is an embarrassment to a company I have always considered to be effective (I refer to my previous experience with Tado V3+ suitable, I would humbly suggest, for smaller homes without 60cm stone internal walls). 60cm internal walls, as I have previously discussed, is my problem not Tado’s; however you rely on accurate information to make an informed decision. In the end, 7 weeks ago I contacted LiveChat to discuss Tado X capabilities and especially confirm the Tado X Wireless Receiver (EU) compatibility with my boiler; I realised after lots of chat we were both talking at cross purposes and gave up (I initially explained that I was looking to upgrade from Tado V3+ on the Tado X chat line…), a couple of months ago now so hopefully all staff are fully trained in all Current/Past & Historic Repository’s for product lines (perhaps the help pages could start with this premiss? that would then avoid linked pages that are inaccurate). Development of hardware can take years, the technical authors should have been working hand-in-hand with the engineers months before the launch. If the articles are re-aligned 3months late then there is no excuse for alignment before launch since nothing at that late stage in product development should be a surprise, this can cause angst with loyal customers looking at mediocre articles with out of date links.

Treskelion1959

Tado’s second response: The receiver released months after the other Line X devices (apart from the UK where all of Line X was released later than for the rest of Europe), therefore many articles don't mention the receiver as these were published before it was released and they would have caused confusion.

Of course, now we need to update them which we are working on but we also have many topics that we would like to add to the line X help center before we can focus on improving the older articles and we are sorry for the confusion that this might have caused.

4. I am not in the game of naming or shaming specific individuals within an organisation, often the issue is poor, rushed or ineffective training before a product launch. To point the finger within an organisation’s training is also unwise; leadership and forward planning comes from the top. Often, I suspect companies use PP presentations that staff use during quieter periods, great if you have eye tracking software & pointer timing (I suspect both are illegal ). Normally you would implement external training experts, they don’t really need to be SMEs (Subject Matter Experts) just looking for consistency. Suffice to say that, at times, I felt the advice was at odds with what I was holding in my hands & failed to impress, starting with the silence over the lack of Tado X Wireless Receiver (EU) CSA compliance card and the rest of the range having said cards. Then my angst could have been nipped in the bud far earlier and avoided me bursting into print.

Tado’s third response: I checked with the content team and most articles should already have been updated to include the receiver by the time we were talking last year, I checked today and all articles I found mentioned the receiver including the one you mentioned.

I also reported the receiver card and even though I was sure before I can now again confirm that it was a simple oversight and will be fixed for future productions. (this may take a while depending on how long the current stocks last)

5. My Conclusion, a fine product spoilt by sloppy packaging (sorry Tado, I do like your products) and poor communication in all mediums before this frank exchange.

Treskelion1959

Tado’s fourth response: I do appreciate a lot that you differentiate between Tado the company and the Tado employees, so while I can not comment on any individual or who started developing what how many years ago, I can say as a company: Tado° did not see this launch as a great success, we will work hard on improving the new Tado devices.

Notes:

1. Let me expand on that detail, for those of us that hate having to take down IoT (Internet of Things) hardware within their property boundaries (I include turning over robotic lawnmowers and other less accessible hardware); then having a physical card enabled you to easily, with a phone swipe, transfer the data to other repositories or indeed Apps or reload recalcitrant hardware. If, like me, you like these cards then they obey the first of 3 edicts for personal datasecurity (it has been a few years so my Information may well be out of date, but for the householder I believe it still holds true), onsite within a physical filing system/NAS, if relatively unimportant and labelled to easily identify the component it refers to, and often photographed to refer with care on your mobile devices. If important, so perhaps something you would deny a thief or concerned about fire damage (after all, IoT is not just in the home but outside as well including leisure vehicles) then a fireproof safe , the CSA compliance card with Matter coding would help an interested company to deny use if contacted. If losing that data would really spoil your day then offsite in my case, encrypted to iCloud+, in my wife’s case 🤷🏻 , No1 son’s data probably under a beer mat (but don’t mess with him he is over 6’4” and enjoys Taekwondo), No 2 son won’t disclose his data, broke his phone so currently uses Dad’s old iPhone X which he hates (6’3” doesn’t do sport but in final year studying Computer Management, mostly Linux based so weaponised indeed and misses his Android phone). What I am alluding to is that everybody should, and hopefully does, assess their own tolerance to risk (after all what do you do when driving?).

Treskelion1959

Tado’s final, full response(s) in original form (obviously sent copy for perusal and comment before publication) to request for clarity, and revisions to original text received will be highlighted. The author’s details are removed to protect anonymity:

First response dated 20 Dec 2024: Hello, Thank you for your interest and contribution to tado°, we appreciate it.

The Wireless Receiver X is a Thread Border Router, but not a Matter device.The reason why there is a Matter labeling on the package is that in the box with the Wireless Starter Kit X, there are two items WirelessThe Wireless Receiver X is a Thread Border Router, but not a Matter device.The reason why there is a Matter labeling on the package is that in the box with the Wireless Starter Kit X, there are two items - Wireless Receiver X which is a Thread Border Router, and a Wireless Temperature Sensor X which is a Matter device. The Wireless Receiver X is a certified Thread Border Router, but not Matter certified, it will allow Matter devices to connect to the internet but won't be visible in third-party Matter apps.

Matter has no assigned device role for a wireless receiver so it is impossible to integrate a device like the receiver or the heat pump Optimizer in Matter until Matter upgrades their standard until then these devices can not be Matter certified but can act as thread border routers for other matter devices.The same is true for UK and EU versions the bridge X the Heat pump optimizer X and to my personal knowledge also every other third-party thread border router (but I do not claim to know all thread border routers in the market).The receiver Released months after the other Line X devices (apart from the UK where all of Line X was released later than for the rest of Europe), therefore many articles don't mention the receiver as these were published before it was released and they would have caused confusion. Of course, now we need to update them which we are working on but we also have many topics that we would like to add to the list.

Of course, now we need to update them which we are working on but we also have many topics that we would like to add to the line X help center before we can focus on improving the older articles and we are sorry for the confusion that this might have caused. As for actual empirical evidence, we of course can not share any data about our customers who are successfully using the EU receiver as their only functioning thread border router but since you have your own receiver you could factory reset it and delete it from the app. and then use it somewhere else to see if it is fully functional as thread border router (again it will not show up as matter device anywhere since it's not a matter device only a thread border router. )If you are wondering how you can control the wireless receiver via Matter the answer is you don't do it directly instead you control the Wireless thermostat that came with it and then the tado infrastructure makes sure that the receiver follows those settings. So basically the Wireless Thermostat + The receiver together create a wireless matter thermostat. And the receiver alone is a fully functioning thread border router.

The missing thread symbol on the card i will report to the responsible department but it has no functional implication and the Bridge X, Receiver, and heat pump optimizer all use the same thread and wifi chips AFAIK. We should be able to get you the exact type number if you want but we would have to request it from our developer's which like the heat pump optimizer all use the same thread and wifi chips AFAIK. We should be able to get you the exact type number if you want but we would have to request it from our developer's which means we will most likely only get an answer after the holidays.I hope I could clarify some of the open questions please let me know if i missed something.

Treskelion1959

Second response to request for clarification dated 8/1/2024:

“Hello Vernon, and a happy new year, sorry for the late reply i should have been back in the first week but my nice vacation was followed by a not so nice sick leave but I'm all better now.

I will try to pick out all points but please let me know if I missed something, you will also get much quicker answers now that I'm back.

First, I wanted to share some things that we discussed before I left: I checked with the content team and most articles should already have been updated to include the receiver by the time we were talking last year, I checked today and all articles I found mentioned the receiver including the one you mentioned.

I also reported the receiver card and even though I was sure before I can now again confirm that it was a simple oversight and will be fixed for future productions. (this may take a while depending on how long the current stocks last)

" requested clarification, doesn’t quite gel with the previous answer BUT PROBABLY MORE TO DO WITH LANGUAGE THAN INTENT. Can you please expand, is this a propriety link between the 2 detailed units?"

--> In Matter, The tado Sensor is seen as a thermostat so a Matter app can send appropriate commands to this Matter device but then the sensor can't execute the commands alone since it is not physically connected to anything. So the receiver needs to be activated, for this to happen there are two layers of communication. Everything is running on thread but one layer is matter and the other is tado°s own that is used whenever we want to call for a function or device that can not be called within the matter standard.

So the receiver and its sensor unit are connected via tado's own language using thread technology. (tado tries to use matter over its own language wherever possible to make as many features as possible controllable by third-party apps)

This is a bit simplified in tado°s internal standard the virtual rooms are the controllers while all devices just act as inputs and outputs for example. I hope I could make it more clear but if not please let me know.

"Has Tado plans to have their own “open” Thread library (Please see Eve/Settings/Thread for an example or Apple’s Matter accessories))"--> This may be me just being uninformed if an open thread library is like an open APIbasically allowing users to write their own applications and call for information from their tado account then the answer is yes but there are a lot of things higher on the list right now (one of which is agreeing on a list that we can guarantee and then sharing it with our customers)

I tried to google the keywords you provided me but i feel like i didn't stumble across the right page so if that's not what an open Thread library is used for please let me know.

As I'm reading the rest of your message im not sure if any other points require my input, i feel like your opinions while harsh are also fair.

There is definitely no eye or mouse tracking involved in our trainings just online courses, little quizzes and some presentations, the truth is that heating systems are complex and there is a lot to learn so it's a very continuous process to stay up to date with everything.

I do appreciate a lot that you differentiate between tado the company and the tado employees, so while I can not comment on any individual or who started developing what how many years ago, I can say as a company: tado° did not see this lunch as a great success. and we will work hard on improving the new tado devices.

Now lastly I want to address points for your account.

1. The smart AC control can not be implemented with the line X home yet. (i would love to give you a time to when that will happen but i don't know for sure until we have the agreed-upon list which will also be made public so hopefully we both no more in the next few days)

2. Currently you went back from the receiver to the nest heat link which as far as I know is a single-channel receiver so in theory, we could use a tado thermostat in its place. I understand that you have already invested a lot of time in this but if you are interested let me know and I will ask if we can replace your receiver with a thermostat.

Have a nice evening and let us know if there are more questions.

Best Regards”

Treskelion1959

3. Possibly of interest if you have trouble sleeping, which is why it resides here:

EJP (since 1996, no longer available but we have “grandfather rights”) agricultural tariff for electric in France (the price fluctuates but it is you that elects to leave the contract, often to go to the dead centre of your village).
Needs careful management on the normally 22 coldest days (06H00 thru 23H59 at 1,54 euros per Kwh which is reviewed both up and down annually) but the rest of the year 15,4 cents a Kwh 24/7 on a 18Kw 3-phase supply. Great if you have an electric vehicle (don’t think a Azub Rohloff e-trike or Bosch Rohloff E14 e-Bike count ), air conditioning in 3 of the 4 seasonsand swimming pools. If we had the pennies … Matter compliant Robotic Lawnmowers.

We were lucky enough to join this tariff in 1993, we were then in our late 20s/early 30s. Saved us a bomb over the years. However, to give an example of an expensive week, it looks like all this week will be on the higher tariff, ‘cos for us it is a perishing -4C at night.