Support for multi-zone UFH manifolds
The current integration with underfloor systems appears to be limited to single zone systems without zone actuators. A lot of UFH system are UFH downstairs with radiators upstairs. The UFH system typically have more than one zone with actuators per zone and a shared pump.
Currently, I can get a multi-zone UFH management from one provider (e.g. the Heatmiser Neo system) and individual radiator control (e.g. tado). It would be good to have an integrated system. Therefore, do you have plans to release hardware for managing UFH manifolds? The existing wireless thermostat offering connected to such a hub would allow the user to create UFH zones which then opens the actuator for that zone, energises the UFH pump and signals for heat from the heat source. I think the hub would need to support up to 8 zones to cater for the majority of install sizes.
An example hub wiring is shown here: https://www.heatmiser.com/en/download/211/english/7486/uh8-rf-manual.pdf
The challenges here are:
- The UFH manifold has a shared pump, with actuators per zone. Therefore, 230V to one or more actuators needs to energise the pump. However, you don't want to accidently open all actuators by energising the pump.
- Modern heat sources will flow at different temperatures depending on the demand. For example flow at 50deg for UFH only demand and 70deg for DHW or Radiator demand. The wiring needs to account for this differentiation.
- If all the radiators have radiator thermostats, the system needs to call for heat when a radiator thermostat calls for heat and not rely on a central thermostat.
Comments
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I'm interested in the same question.
I'm having a new house built, with UFH downstairs and radiators upstairs. I'm planning to have Tado TRVs on the radiators. The UFH installer wants to install Heatmiser Neo.
I'm wondering if it will be possible to wire the Heatmiser Neo to the Tado extension kit. That way, if the UFH thermostats call for heat, the Heatmiser wiring centre (via the extension kit) tells the boiler to fire up, but the radiator TRVs remain shut (unless they also need to call for heat).
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I'm doing the exact same, new extension with UFH and Tado TRVs on all radiators in half of the downstairs rooms and all throughout the 1st floor. My electrician seems to think the extnsion kit should be find as it has a relay switch so it can tell each zone to work.
Failing this I know Heatmiser Neo stats are very popular for UFH. They do have their own hub that allows you to control it via your phone and is also Homekit enabled which is a huge bonus for my setup.
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HI Nayan,
the solution I'm looking at is:
- Heatmiser UFH-8 wiring centre connected to the boiler, pump and zone valve so that it can call for heat.
- neoStat thermostats will be connected via the wiring centre to the actuator for each UFH zone.
- If a neoStat UFH thermostat calls for heat, the wiring centre instructs the boiler to fire up, it opens the UFH zone valve, activates the pump, and opens the relevant actuator. If other zones don’t need heat, their actuators will remain closed and those zones won’t heat up.
- If no UFH thermostat is calling for heat, then the zone valve remains closed, so even if the boiler is operating to provide hot water or for the upstairs radiators, the UFH system won’t heat up.
- A Tado wired thermostat will be connected to Zone 8 (which is a special zone which can be set to "radiator" mode). If this zone calls for heat, the boiler fires up, but the UFH zone valve remains closed and the pump doesn’t operate. It can also operate a radiator zone valve, if required.
- I'll have Tado smart TRVs on each radiator upstairs. If they call for heat, the Tado wired thermostat will trigger Zone 8 on the Heatmiser, and call for heat.
- This means I'll use two apps - Tado for the radiators, and Heatmiser for the UFH. They'll have to be programmed separately, but as you say both have Homekit support.
- AFAIK, a Tado extension kit isn't required - the Heatmiser wiring centre will handle all communication with the boiler. (Although I think an extension kit could be added if required).
Note that in theory I could replace the Heatmiser neoStats with wired Tado stats, connected to the UFH wiring centre in the same way. This would allow me to manage everything via the Tado app. However according to my installer, there would be limited benefit to this, and it would cost quite a bit more. Also, it would mean that Tado's geofencing support would switch off the UFH heating whenever I went out, which isn't optimal given how slow it is to respond. He reckons that (except when away on holiday) it's better to just leave the UFH at the same target temperature all day long, with a setback in the evening.
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I have very similar setup with IDEAL Vogue Max 40 boiler- Radiators all Tado TRVs apart from one towel radiator. Radiators connected to Zone 8. I have 4 wired thermostats for 4 UFH zones. 2 are controlled with Neostat controllers and 2 with Tado thermostats - installers very keen to use Heatmiser Neos. I had to use at least one as the ensuite has a floor sensor - not sure Tado allow for a floor temperarure sensor.
Radiators TRVs control the boiler and relay as advertised, asn temperture controlled as expected. But I am new to UFH and cannot work out how to control it properly, I have lowered desired temperature to 10degs, but still the rooms are held at around 22 degs!.
anyone know how to get a lower temperature - short of switching off UFH?
As far as I know, Opentherm control is not connected yet, so does this mean the boiler is on/off rather than varies power level?
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I have the same challenge. Ended-up using a Heatmiser and the home extension kit hanging off the 8th port and just doing a basic call for heat. With the current set-up, I can't take advantage of eBUS modulation of the boiler or the 2 different temperature settings depending on the heat source demand without spending a few more hundreds of pounds buying additional Vaillant controllers and making the system even more complex.
See diagram for set-up
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