[Release] OpenTherm Max Flow Temperature setting
On 28.10.2022 we have added the option to set the maximum flow temperature for OpenTherm configured tado thermostats / Extension Kits / Wireless Receivers without contacting our support department.
From this moment forward, your installer will have the possibility to set the maximum flow temperature on V3/V3+ homes (your internet bridge has a serial number starting with IB) by following these steps:
- Download the "tado for installers" app in the Play or App store.
- Open the app, and scan the tado internet bridge of the correct account.
- Start a "system check" from the app.
- At the end of the system check, and if the tado thermostat is set to OpenTherm, it will be possible to adapt the maximum flow temperature.
- For some boiler, it will require a boiler reset (unplug the boiler for 30 minutes) for the new maximum flow temperature to become active.
Why has this feature not been released in the main tado app? After user research, it became clear that the feature might not be understood by the majority of users. And if the flow temperature was set too low, it would lead to additional support requests when the home was not able to heat sufficiently during the coldest days of the year. Therefore the decision (for now) is to make this feature only available to professionals using the tado professional app.
Original post:
Hello,
Each time I want to change the max water temperature settings of my heating system, I have to email tado. This takes time (usually a few days!), and also eats resources at tado's side.
I would like to have an advanced settings menu made available, where I can access these settings myself.
It will be benificial to both end users, and tado. Plus you could keep these settings hidden for less experienced/capable customers.
Comments
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This is for me is a non negotiable change that absolutely has to happen, I'm a heating engineer of 25 years and even the cheapest open therm devices on the market such as EPH combi pack 4 has a function to set and limit the maximum heating flow temperature.
Running a condensing boiler at 80 degrees is madness.
ALL new boilers have been condensing type for the last 15 years and it's part of their fundamental design to run on a slightly lower flow temperature.
It's absolute no brainer and without this function it's a deal breaker for us to be able to specify this our customers and we install over 200 hundred boilers a year.7 -
Agree! Same problem here!0
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Hello, I am having the same issue, is it possible to ask Tado assistance to reduce remotely the MAX temp? My condensing heating system is overheating at 80C!!! Thanks0
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@Asbesto
Changing the setting remotely is not the problem. Just e-mail/chat with them. This can take a few days because the first line support can’t do much.
My request is to allow users to change the settings >themselves<.
Same thing goes for the PID temperature control strategy by the way…..
I have to email support, wait a few days for a short reply that doesn’t anwer all of my questions, mail again……
Tado: Just make an advanced user menu! Allow people access to the full features of their expensive devices.3 -
Totally agreed! They decreased remotely my temperature, however we want an advanced menu2
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I do this by configuring the max flow temp on the boiler itself to 60 deg in deep winter and 55 otherwise, but agree having this in the app would be awesome.2
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This would be a great feature and should be very simple to do (probably save more time on the help desks than the engineers would take to implement it!).
Don't suppose anyone has had any updates on this feature?0 -
Ideally Tado should be smart-enough to automatically compute 'optimal max temp' based on the data like outisde temp, forecast, desired temp, heating schedule, etc - similar to how temp curves can be adjusted on the boilers.
I posted the following as a new feature request, but it got deleted, likely because it is kind of a duplicate of this request, so pasting it again here:
When Tado controller operates in OpenTherm or similar mode, it has got full autonomy over flow temperature / modulation of the boiler - from my experience, it is not possible to override these in any way from within the boiler configuration, you are at mercy of what Tado dictates (at least this is the case in Viessman boilers).
Unfrotuatenly, the logic is not ideal - when the thermostat calls for heat, Tado will ramp up flow temp to the absolute maximum permitted by the boiler (usualy over 80C). It will stay in this mode potentially for hours (especially in a big houses), until the rooms are close to the desired temperautre - and only then flow temp is gradually reduced to a more sensible levels.
I am sure this is done to make sure rooms gets heated up as soon as possible, but is also a problem, since in a modern condensing boilers combustion efficiency is directly related to the heating flow temp (lower temp = higher efficency):
This means boiler for a significant amount of time operates at only ~ 87% efficency, instead of potentially 98% or more - which directly translates to higer gas bills (and enviroment impact), quite important aspect, especially in the current global warming and cost-of-living-crisis climate.
To solve the problem, generally boilers allow to control 'temperature curve' - so max flow temp is limited based on the temperature outside (the logic is that there is no point blasing the flow temp to the max if the difference between indoor vs outdoor is only a few deg C or so - much lower temp will do the trick too, while achieving higher combustion efficency). For example:
However, the above logic does not seem to work when Tado is in charge of boiler parameters via OpenTherm.
I don't really think full manual curve control is needed in case of Tado - it feels like the system has got all the information (outisde temp - including forecast, all the internal temperatures, desired temps schedule, etc) to make 'smarter' flow temperature decisions.
In OpenTherm and similar modes, it would be great to have an option to either 'prioritize heating performance' (basically the current behaviour using max flow temp possible when ramping up) or 'prioritize heating efficency', which would automatically reduce max flow temp based on the env factors mentioned earlier, to maximize benefits of condensing mode and improve combustion efficency (at the expense of rooms taking a bit longer to heat up)
Implementing such 'efficency' option should be relatively straightforward - and could also be a great marketing story in these troubling and difficult times, when global warming runs unchecked, heating costs spiral completely out of control and many families struggle to pay the bills...
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Yes I couldn’t agree more. I keep wondering if I should install the Viessmann weather /temp compensator and let the boiler do the temp calculations and turn Tado into a less smart ‘switch’ to start and stop the boiler for each room depending on of it needs heating or not.1
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Thanks @lll for describing it so succinctly, I think your suggestion is the right definition of what smart heating system should be doing. I also questioned myself why when heating is requested it normally uses the max flow temperature in the beginning even if the temperature difference is small.
I would definitely choose a 'prioritize heating efficency' at all times since my boiler is also a condensing one.
Let's hope Tado make the smart system 'smarter'.
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It should be possible to change CV temperature between 30 and 85 deg C from tado app.
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Hello!
Any update on this topic ?
It is scary to let the boiler heat the water to 80C… Anyone any experiences with Baxi boiler ?
Is it better to connect the Tado thermostat in relay mode and then let the boiler decide about the modulation by using an external temperature sensor ?0 -
@Rob @Jurian any comments?0
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I guess the winter season is starting again. TADO did not use the summer to bring this feature to their device range?
Annoys me to death, that they advertise their products as environmentally & financially useful. Instead this high system temperature only reduces efficiency.
I have ordered an opentherm gateway, to put in between the boiler and the wireless connection kit
This way, I should be able to alter the requested temperature. Plan is to incorporate into home assistant, and let it be adaptive to the outside temperature. Like in the table of one of the previous posts.
Will post an update when it’s working. Ridiculous though, to have users pay so much for the hardware, and then hack into the system to make it work properly1 -
I think the OP means that he wants to control the max water temperature of the central heating unit.0
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Excuse my ignorance of this subject but would like a point cleared up:
I have an Intergas 36/30 Combi boiler to which I added an external temperature sensor and run as open therm. I then got a Nest learning room stat and set this to open therm.
I have read so much here about Tado wireless smart stats no longer being open therm, but the discussion above makes me think that I could use the Tado wireless smart stat to control my boiler on/off while the boiler would continue to perform in open therm. Can anyone confirm if this is correct as I have just fitted 7 Tado SRVs and was looking to replace the Nest stat with the tado to allow the SVRs to bring on the boiler.
If open therm won't be possible then I won't buy the Tado stat.
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The boiler doesn’t ‘perform in opentherm’ - it’s a language used to speak between controllers and boilers to control modulation and various other functions.
Tado wireless temperature sensors have nothing to do with Opentherm - they have no physical connections. Tado wired thermostats (which can also operate wirelessly) do have digital connections, which includes opentherm.
Tado uk wireless receivers do not have digital connections. Eu wireless receivers and the old extension kits do.
In your case, you could keep your weather compensation kit (which would modulate the boiler output) and install the uk wireless receiver in relay so you’d get the best of both worlds. On some boilers there’s a clash if you use two digital connections anyway, though I think I remember reading that intergas boilers are the exception to this.0 -
Updated the first post with the release information: https://community.tado.com/en-gb/discussion/8611/release-opentherm-max-flow-temperature-setting/p1?new=1
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Very nice TADO, great to develop this method and giving us access. Compliments, and thanks for honoring the initial request I made.
A little addition to your instructions ;-)
After performing the system check, follow these steps:
Now if I can have one more request: my underfloor heating has issues with over- and undershooting. This is because the thermostat keeps heating too long, and later starts heating too late:
The thermostat is, unfortunately, not an automatically adjusting one. So I am experimenting with different Kp,Ki and Kd values. These are only accessible via TADO support. For this, I also have to e-mail and bother your support staff. Actually only the 2nd line support can do this. Valuable resources!
So now that you've made this PRO app available, could you include a way for us to adjust these values? For instance by clicking on the thermostat involved, and adjusting the values. Great feature for installers and users alike!
Thanks,
Tim
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@Jurian it would be helpful if Tado actually sold opentherm in the UK.
Unfortunately I've reached the point that without Opentherm the system doesn't do what I want.
No electric underfloor heating control.
Expensive extra thermostats.
No UK Opentherm.
Expectations haven't met the claims.
Buggy app.0 -
Well done Tado! Why not make the installers app the pro version with all the customisation users of this forum request and keep the standard app as a simple version for people who don’t want to change the settings.
@mojomoomoo tado sells the opentherm wireless receiver at its uk pro store. You can also use the the wired thermostat.0 -
Glad this has finally been made available to us. For those who don't want to install yet another app, the relevant changes can also be accessed from: https://model-selector.tado.com/
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Thanks for that addition @TimNLD and @pcone !0
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Have you power cycled your boiler and tado extension kit?
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Does Tado for installers not work with V2 of the kit? I cannot scan the QR on my v2 bridge, nor is the serial number accepted as it expects it to start IB not GW.
In terms of not releasing this to the main app - why not? I do not subscribe to your logic that it might cause more support tickets when all you really need to do is code in some suitable warnings about flow ranges and a double opt it.
I have no way to know if my Glowworm boiler is running right and efficiently, I bought my 'smart thermostat' kit to replace the Glow Worm ClimaPro in the hope that my house will heat at the right times and for the right amount of time - yet my boiler appears to run for hours longer than I would expect when heat isn't needed so much but not long enough when the temperature drops.
Just being able to access the settings I had with the glow worm controls might save me from thinking that Tado isn't doing the job as expected.
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Same issue as Bunglehaze - v2 hub won't scan, and serial prefix hardcoded to IB on the website. Can we get a fix on this please!
@Jurian1 -
@Bunglehaze @Stevo125 It does work with V2 Bridge, I have a V2 Bridge and the Installer App works fine. IB stand for Internet Bridge, are you scanning the little Bridge. NOT the Extension Kit. Maybe you have V1 Bridge ??
edit:
pretty sure i have V2 bridge, but my serial does start with IB so maybe not???
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@andyblac Yeah I am scanning the little bridge and it was all bought together with the bridge, thermostat, extension kit etc as a V2 kit. Unless something screwy has happened from where I bought it over a year ago now I am not entirely sure what else to do.
@Stevo125 does yours start with GW also?
Actually just searched the community and saw a post from Jurian that would suggest that my V2 bridge is correct with a GW prefix:
We did not provide a firmware update for the V2 bridge (serial starting with GW), since the amount of affected devices is very low compared to the V3/V3+ bridge (serial starting with IB).
This was on an EE internet thread, so not connected to this particular issue.
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