V3+ users can now request Offline Schedule
Comments
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Can someone confirm how I turn on the offline schedule? I always have the odd room that goes offline and it would be helpful to know the offline schedule feature is in use. I cannot find a setting within the app?
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I have filled out this form over a month ago and as yet I have not had any confirmation, nor is it active. Anyone know how long it is currently taking?
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@ Ste I see in the support chats that the feature was enabled for you 2 days ago. They would not have enabled it if your hardware was incompatible. My colleague sent you a message 15 minutes ago. It seems like the requested scheduled temperature has been met even when offline. Please reach out to them if this is incorrect.
@DAS3 I see that you registered yesterday, please wait the described 1-3 weeks. You should receive an email.
@Raptor0014 I don't see your email address on the registration list. Did you use one other than the one you are using for your community account?0 -
@Emcee thanks for this, it's been a long time coming.
Out of curiosity, can you confirm that the deviceList API call can be used to verify that the device supports this feature? I am seeing the following using devtools
"entries": [ { "type": "RU02", <snip>
} { "type": "SU02", <snip> } { "type": "VA02", <snip> } ]Hopefully this means that I am good correct?
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I've read all the comments here and if I'm not missed any then nobody asked yet the most important question:
"What is the purpose of online schedule from now on?"
If the offline schedule is implelented and activated what is the benefit of the online schedule? Why is it needed? It have at least one drawback: the TRV waits for the server to modifiy the setpoint according to the schedule. But the TRV itself knows the schedule it can work autonomously.
I have data from all tado° devices in my house in Home Assistant system from both the tado° integration and the HomeKit integration. If I draw a graph with it it can clearly shows that there are ocasions when the server sends the setpoint change 5-10 minutes late!!!
Just look at this picture depicting an extreme but real situation: ("kívánt hőmérséklet" means: setpoint)
Green one is the value coming from the tado° integration (which of course coming from the todo° server) yellow one is the HomeKit integration of the same unit. (Local network communication!)
So, although the Thermostat itself "knows" that the setpoint should be changed at 7:00 it waits for the server… And the server was busy for more than 16 minutes!
Why the thermostats waits for the server if they know the schedule? It doesn't makes any sense.
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I assume part of it is that key components of Tado's smart schedule are geo-location and weather compensation, which factor into the schedule how far away from home each user is and what the temperature is outside. Both of these require an internet connection.
Some kind of hybrid solution may well work better, but given Tado started out online only and has added this offline feature as a basic backup, I don't expect them to change things further.
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Weather compensation should affect only the open-close degree of a valve. I talk about the setpoint. The setpoint should not be affected by weather. (And according to my experience it is NOT affected!)
Setpoint can be affected by the geo locations of the usersbut if this feature is not enabled (please remember it's not free!) then the only thing that should change the setpoint itself is the schedule. (Or a manual intervention.)And I do not said that turn off online schedule. Just let the unit itself change the setpoint according to the known schedule regardless of online or offline state of the unit. In the example I showed above will change the setpoint to 19°C both at 7:00 (by the unit itself) and at ~7:17 (by the server). It would not harm anyting.
Edit: Geo-locations of users shouldn't change directly the setpoint itself. It changes the mode (Home or Away) of the thermostat. And Away mode just overrides the schedule.
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I was under the impression that part of the "Weather Adaptation" is using the outside temperature forecast to optimise the "Eary Start" feature (where it doesn't just turn the heating on at 7am, but will aim to have the room up to temperature by 7am). i.e. if it is colder outside then it will need to start heating sooner.
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I also filled out the form some time ago but I didn't receive any confirmation email.
Some of the components may not be v3+ compatible
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(My comment is lost???)
Of course Eary start feature should use the outside temperature but again this function can only start heating BEFORE a scheduled turning on.
And I do not said that eliminate online schedule and ability to send a command from the server to the unit. Just let the unit itself change the setpoint according to the known schedule regardless of online or offline state of the unit. In the example I showed above will change the setpoint to 19°C both at 7:00 (by the unit itself) and at ~7:17 (by the server). It will not harm anyting.
Oh, and one more thing. Geo-locations of users doesn't change directly the setpoint itself. It changes the status (Home or Away) of the thermostat. And Away status just overrides the schedule.
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@Watt25 Re: "Oh, and one more thing. Geo-locations of users doesn't change directly the setpoint itself. It changes the status (Home or Away) of the thermostat. And Away status just overrides the schedule."
It does when using "preheat before arrival" feature, the closer you get to home the higher it will set the "away" setpoint so that the heating will turn on even if "away" to ensure home is warm upon arrival.
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But as I said: in away mode the "normal" schedule is disabled. In that case ofcourse the unit itself will not change the setpoints according to the schedule. It should only does this in "Home" mode.
I do not understand why it is not a problem for you. In the schedule you set a heat-up point to 16:00 and the heat starts at only 16:17. Because somewhere in the cloud a server is too busy to send out a data-package. Is this acceptable for you? For me it is not.
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@Watt25 your comments on your graph (https://community.tado.com/en-gb/discussion/comment/85901/#Comment_85901) don't make sense to me.
As you said "Green one is the value coming from the tado° integration…..yellow one is the HomeKit integration of the same unit".
It's the green value (server) that changes just before 7:02 and the yellow one (HomeKit) that is 16 minutes late, just before 7:18. Not the other way around, as you described it.
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Ok, some explanation.
tado° integration in Home Assistant works like this: It just periodically asks the tado° servers what are the values of the tado units. The server does not communicate directly with the units to answer the requests it only sends back the last values stored by the server and in case of the setpoints the value what the schedule says. So overall, in case of the setpoint the server is lying to Home Assistant. As it does in case of the tado° app. It lies to you!
But on the other hand HomeKit integration talks directly to the unit (TRVs, room thermostats) on the local network. So, the reality is what HomeKit integration says. Every change in any unit is reflected within a few seconds in HomeKit integration. I tested this. Values in HomeKit integration are always up-to-date. (Except for the few seconds I mentioned.)
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@Emcee @davemidd Thanks for replying. How do I know it's working? (It's since been offline but I didn't receive a message.)
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If a device goes offline it is shown as such by the app together with wording which indicates it’s following the offline schedule . . .0
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Hi. If I request this feature can I still use ‘away mode’? For example if I go on holiday and set the app to away, will the heating still come on?0
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Emcee, please can you check if this has been enabled on my account as it was requested some time ago.
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This is absolutely perfect!
My biggest gripe about Tado is offline support and radiators losing connection to the bridge (thus being offline) due to range problems.
This will fix that, thank you so much! X would also fix it, but the cost of the upgrade, specifically having to replace all of the radiator valves and creating all this e-waste put me right off!
Checked everything and it's all compatible with the look of it. I was a little worried as I purchased late 2018.
Going to fill in the form now.
But what about hot water? Does that also have an offline option? Or can it be switched on without an internet connection?0 -
Form filled in.
Actually just remembered, my biggest gripe is the boiler not switching off and running all through the night because one of the radiators randomly lost connection just before off time.0 -
@DTWD I'm not certain if this feature would actually address your specific case. I don't know if the offline schedule would run in the TRV if the TRV has lost contact with the bridge (as opposed to the bridge losing Internet connectivity). Even if the schedule does run in the TRV, what effect would that have on the heating overall if the TRV can't talk to the bridge? The system won't get any 'call for heat' indication from the TRV nor will it get any temperature readings from it. How will the system react in that case? Maybe someone like @Emcee can enlighten us…
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@ChrisJ I have already had a single TRV going off line and it continued with its own schedule with the rest of the setup operating as normal. I agree though with your 'call for heat' where it goes offline pre-schedule but that would only be a problem if that was the only TRV calling.
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One of my TRV's loses contact with the bridge from time to time. When that happens its tile in the app. states that the TRV is running an offline schedule but of course this can only mean that it opens and closes on time and so cannot call for heat. I've yet to experience what happens if the bridge loses contact with the cloud.
I do think that some detailed release notes for this much requested feature would be very helpful. I previously asked whether @Emcee could arrange this but have heard nothing more about it . . .
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@ChrisJ You make a good point.
If the TRV calls for heat and can't contact the bridge (as the TRV is offline), the TRV can open the radiator valve but it won't get any hot water unless the bridge has independently called for heat, or another (connected) TRV has. This suggests that having a schedule on the bridge would be a good idea. BUT, if the TRV is offline, then I would say it's a bad idea for the bridge to call for heat because it doesn't know if the radiator valve is open or not (the TRV may be closed and broken), so heat will be being wasted and it could possible cause damage to the boiler/heating system as there is nowhere for the heat to escape to other than from the pipes (this is why I don't have my towel rails on Tado so there is always somewhere for the heat to go).
Running it from the bridge would make most sense programatically as everything is going through it anyway. If the bridge can't get to the internet it just looks up it's local schedule and sends the signal out to the devices as if it's come from the server. I would like it to have a little if statement in there to check it can communicate with a TRV and to check the valve is open before calling for heat if that's the only TRV that's supposed to be on.
That said, if the TRV can store it's own schedule, it can open and close as normal even if it loses connection and as long as another TRV is calling for heat, that radiator will be able to get warm as per its schedule.
This brings us back to my problem of offline TRVs that you quite rightly point out probably won't be fixed by this. It certainly sounds like the new system (X) would probably remedy this, but that's not happening any time soon for us for previously explained reasons.
So, would a fix be for each TRV to have an option for "If connection lost assume" and then a toggle for "off", "on", "last setting" (with appropriate warnings - but default to off). That way if a TRV's connection is lost, the server (or bridge in offline mode) could switch the heating on or off depending on what was set on the TRV and what the others were doing. If no other TRV is calling for heat and there is an offline one that previously had called for heat, it checks what it's lost connection setting is, and takes the appropriate action. That action being to switch the heating off, switch it on or leave it at it's last setting requested by that TRV.
I know for me, I can count on one hand the amount of times I have lost my internet connection, but I would need a notepad to record down the amount of times a TRV has gone offline.
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