"Summer/Cooling mode" for wall thermostat
Hi there,
I have an underfloor heating with a cooling function. In summer, cool water can run through the floor to cool the room. For that I currently need to set the temperature to max (25°C) to keep the thermostats open. If the room temperature would rise above 25°C the thermostats would close and prohibit a cooling function.
For that reason a "summer mode" would be nice. My idea is to invert the heating logic to a cooling logic, either by a switch or by a threshold average outside temperature etc). Then the thermostats would open if the temperatur is above the desired room temperature. Anyone backing this?
Comments
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Wouldn't connecting up the Smart AC control to your underfloor cooling system achieve this?
Can't imagine tado have any plans or desire to merge their two products in to one, reducing their revenue.
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@martinploeger you can achieve what you need with the existing App. The Tado thermostat has two outputs. The NC output calls for heat when the room temperature is below target. When the room is at or above target the NO output is energised to call for cooling. If your UFH uses a single input for both heating and cooling mode then you install a 3-way light switch between the thermostat and the UFH. The light switch toggles between summer mode and winter mode.
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Thanks for the comments. First of all I do not have a AC Control and I do not intend to install an additional AC Control besides every Thermostat, as well as an additional switch in every room. I'd only like a software toggle to invert the heating/cooling logic in summer. It cannot be that hard to change a "bigger than" to a "less than". The option can also be hidden if you do not enable this in setting (e.g. "I own a heating system with integrated cooling option"). I just thought of this as an USP for tado... as other smart thermostats to not have this to my knowledge. "dumb" thermostats partially have a switch for inverted logic, but also very few.
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I also cannot think of many people, who would install twice as much devices for this. So it would IMHO not reduce their revenue.
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@Justcop Also the AC Control - to my knowledge - only controls AC via infrared signal. So I believe this won't work.
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They could even make it an in app purchase if the development is that complex or they fear for their revenue if they must.
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Cooling via a wired thermostat is such a niche at this time (in europe, it is common in the USA) that supporting it does not make sense for us at this time.
However, unofficially tado already supports this because the tado thermostats have a normally closed (NC) port available. This should allow you to change from heating to cooling mode by switching the NO wire to the NC port. (only if your heating system can also be set to cooling mode)
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Jurian, I'm sorry to hear that. As far as I know, Spain is in Europe.
In Spain it is very commoon cooling via a wired thermostat (heating/cooling floors with air to water heat pumps).
I am not purchasing tado till the date, waiting for an easy integration of the cooling function.1 -
What's more, my annual consumption in cooling mode is higher than in heating mode. In future years, climate change even will increase the consumption in summer. Probably not only in Spain but in many other european territories.2
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I live in france and it definitely is a very common setup here, I'm quite surprised it is considered a niche as it is more and more common with the better insulation in new buildings & renovations.
I'd love a better support although I do understand this might be possible to do it DIY with a manual switch when we change seasons.
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you can idd change it so the NC toggles cooling but can you then make the automatic valves work in reverse so they open more if it gets warmer ? i think this is the problem with the system.
also saying that cooling is a niche is bold and a lie. in belgium they started using heatpumps with the cooling function 11 years ago when they build new houses. furthermore in the netherlands thay are using those types heavily.
and u say it makes no sense ? it is just a few lines of codes you have to ad so i dont see the problem really it is easy work and u get a lot of new buyers :/ .
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After reading the last messages iIt is clear that support this demmand does makes sense... What does not makes sense is a DIY solution.
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I am very surprised that this 'inversion of the logic' is not allowed on Tado!
All newly built houses (I am in Italy) have heat/cool pumps with open close-valve. If I had known this I would have avoided Tado some months ago.
The DYI option is horrible and goes against the easiness of use that TADO is advertising.
Moreover, the answer from Jurain at TADO denotes a very poor and not customer-oriented support.
Please let us know if you are planning to add this, even with a 'paid' license.
If not, I'll need to migrate back to the good old Honeywell thermostat that just supported Summer-WInter modes to invert the logic.
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@alebenni I understand you perfectly. Migrate back is a disappointmemt and a loose of money! I would buy ten thermostats if the cooling option were added, but it seems that we are asking for something very very complicated. The response of @Jurian is far from a customer-oriented support.2
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I need such a functionality. Heatpump and ufh can provide heating and cooling... I'm recommended by my plumber to ensure that the thermostats can support cooling... but by that i don't think it means re-wiring it each season... or having some DIY inverter switch.
You would expect switching the behaviour in the software.
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Add me to the list! How unsmart is that?2
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+1 to this!
Air/ground source pumps are increasingly popular in Europe for both heating and cooling water for Under Floor systems.
Is there any plan to support this in the short term? If not, this is a deal breaker for me.
Anyway, if there was a DIY solution for a group of Smart Radiator Thermostats controlled by a Smart Temperature Sensor (that's my arrangement since I don't have a wired thermostat to control the manifold actuators), please share.
For now, I'm thinking that setting the control mode to manual, and with a pair of IFTTT rules (or Siri shortcuts) that open and close the valves according to a given room temperature, it might work for summer. I'm not sure if that's possible, though 🤔.
I cannot stress enough how wanted this feature is.
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"Is there any plan to support this"
Short answer: Yes.
We already support cooling for air-air heat pumps which are controlled via an infrared remote control. Our Smart AC Control would be the device to use for those heat pumps, and it supports cooling.
In other markets, x to water heat pumps are getting more and more mainstream. One can argue they already are mainstream, and are the future of heating (and cooling) homes. These are controlled by wired thermostats (or wireless thermostats with a wired receiver). We cannot control cooling there... yet. Properly supporting x to water heat pumps is a major priority for tado° though, and we are working on this as we speak. Given the many different digital bus interfaces that are used for heat pumps in the different European markets, this is not a small project. I cannot give you a timeline as I simply don't know, but proper heat pump compatibility one of our key priorities right now.
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Yes do this. For the love of god! Why doesn’t this exist?2
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Wanted to add my +1 to this.
I’m planning to replace my gas boiler with a Panasonic Aquarea air to water heat pump. I currently have a single zone plumbed with radiators and tado TSVs. I’m adding a second zone that will have combination heat/cool radiators and the standard non-smart zone thermostat.
Ideally both zones would use the same thermostat system for a shared way to control the heat pump mode and circulating pumps, over each zone having a unique control system.
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+1 from me too.
I noticed you are talking about "different digital bus interfaces that are used for heat pumps" but I don't need this at all. Literally the only thing I need (and others) is a reversal of the thermostat controlling logic. Instead of the relay in the Smart Thermostat opening a valve when the measured temperature is less than the desired temperature, the relay needs to open a valve when the measured temperature is more than the desired temperature. In my case the 'heat wanted' signal is the same as the 'cooling wanted' signal so I wouldn't even need to change any wiring.
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For me also the „simple reversal“ would suffice. This can either be triggered by a global switch in the app „summer mode“ or sth. or if a set threshold avg. temperature is passed in summer.
Any additional feature would be an addition (more, finer settings, controllable via API etc.)3 -
I do not need any change to the hardware itself4
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I’m going to try the 3-way switch solution using a Shelly, this way I should have a way to automatically switch between winter/summer using some automation.
Having this built into Tado would be great0 -
This kind of cooling, or just in general using the water being pumped between radiators to redistribute heat around the house, without running a boiler or chiller, just the pump, would be relatively easy to implement for yourself, IF you had full access to the actuators on the valves... Just inverting the logic of the wall thermostat by swapping NC and NO contacts is not enough, as mentioned by earlier contributors, you also need to be able to open the radiator/under-floor-heating in the 'too hot' room H (e.g. attic on the south side of the home), and the valve to your 'colder' room C (e.g. basement, underground cold store, or your neighbour's walk-in fridge ;-) ), so you can pump cold water to room H from C and vice-versa. Probably wouldn't be the worlds most efficient heat pump, but at least it is something to play with and make you think of how you would redo your heating^W indoor-climate-control-system if you would win the lottery, and by thinking about it realize how it actually works, and where you can still optimize the set-up you have.
Another suggestion that basically is 'give us more control over the devices, so we can do cool things you haven't thought of, or think are too niche'0 -
Thinking about changing NO to NC, this only inverts the demand of water, but the app logic si always reaching a high temperature. So, is this working?
I think that Tado shall add some kind of summer logic just changing the "circulates water to reach high temperature" to "circulates water to reach low temperature maintaining the range"
Is there any form to fulfill to push Tado for this feature?5 -
Have just installed Panasonic Aquarea air to water heat pump. I need to cool the floor during summer. Really, Tado, please just add the summer mode to inverse the logic on thermostats. I’ve spent a fortune by replacing thermostats all over my home to Tado and it’s really ridiculous you overcomplicate a very simple solution that would benefit thousands of people and boost your sales. Tight integration with heat pump logic is really not required at this stage, just simple on/off command for the valves with inverse logic compared to heat season. Please make it happen!
P.S. app itself is great both UI and UX!2 -
Wtf such a stupid response from the company. No cooling support is ridiculous. Other thermostats can do even fan only. It’s sad because I really like tado’s design.2
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The answer of Tado shows, that they have not understood the requirement for the cooling mode. My old Siemens with a bimetallic switch had this option already.
There is however a way to still make it work: You have to set your temperature to the max of 25 C so the valve stays open and cools. To avoid the valve from closing once you hit 25 C every room needs to have its temperature “corrected “. This can be found on the settings of the room (not the thermostat). The App allows you to adjust up to 10 C. So your cooling will work until 35 C. I know it is not pretty, as you have to keep it in mind when checking your temperature and it messes up your statistics.3 -
I made this point in an email to tado and got this reply:
Re: Reversing Tado valve control to allow air to water heat pump to act as an air conditioner as a refrigerator
Thank you for contacting us.
Unfortunately, the tado° heating devices, Smart Radiator Thermostats, and Smart Thermostats can not control systems that are used for cooling and tado° can not open the radiator valves when you need to cool your house.
We’re continuously enhancing our compatibility with different heating systems, but we can't say when your system will be compatible with tado°.
I will mention it to the team and kindly ask you to leave your feature request in the tado° Community, so it can be discussed and voted on by our Community members.
That feedback then helps us determine what we should change, and which features we should develop further.
Please let me know if there is anything else I can help with.
Kind regards,
I replied as follows:
I have had a look at the discussion forum and want to draw your attention to the
Summer/Cooling mode" for wall thermostat
Discussion. There is a real need for what I suggested and this is from people in a number of different European countries.
I said all that is needed is a software switch added to the existing software which reverses the winter mode “open if less than temp x” to “open if more than temp x”. Your people are over complicating it as an entirely separate thermostat could, and May already does control the cooling function of the air to water heat pump.
Please make this happen and send up line to your software engineers.4
