Launch a range extender or upgrade to mesh network

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Comments

  • I have the same issue for my furthest valve. I want a better solution than moving the bridge closer with an extension cable
  • ummario
    ummario
    edited June 2021

    It is frustrating how Tado just ignores their costumers with one of the most requested features.

    I live in a big house (4 storey), I can only use the tado in the 2 bellow floors, and even like that most of the times internet bridge can't communicate with all the smart radiator thermostats. On the Tado app sometimes apparently everything is fine (but sometimes is also not ok) but on Apple Homekit home App there's always one or two smart radiator thermostats that appears as unavailable.

    This is frustrating, because if we want to create automations including the thermostats we just can't do it!

    I tried to place internet bridge on all the possible places at my home, switching usb cables, power adapater, upside down, lied down, the only thing I have not tried was Vodoo, but I'm considering to do it!

    Modern houses have Wifi everywhere! Now there's also Thread Technology. Why Tado does not upgrade their system? Why is not possible to have more then one internet bridge? Why not a range extender? So many people complaining here, exactly with same problems!

    Admin removal of last sentence.

  • Jurian
    Jurian | Admin

    @ummario tado does not ignore all the feedback. However, we have a policy of only announcing new features/fixes once they are actually rolled out to the field.

    The problem with HomeKit is unrelated to the RF communication, and has a different root cause. For example, HomeKit currently does not support more than 25 total devices, even though the tado app does support it (unofficially). https://support.tado.com/en/articles/3455030

    It is not possible to use WiFi in our products, since WiFi uses way too much power for any battery operated device.

    Adding support for multiple bridges is not trivial for our current architecture of local communication between devices. Please keep in mind that the tado heating products are more sophisticated than most other IoT devices because there is a hierarchy between the devices (heat source controllers and heat requests from other tado devices). This inter-product communication goes trough a single tado bridge at this time. Adding more bridges would add a lot of additional complexity. (on top of working with very underpowered hardware due to power limits due to battery operation)

    (almost) nothing is impossible, but everything is a question of priority and costs compared to other potential improvements.

    Having said all this, please note that we are working in the background on understanding the exact issue, and bringing a fix to our customers. I can't give you any further details until it will be rolled out.

  • Dear @Jurian

    I appreciate your honest answer and detailed comments. I know it might not be easy to solve and I understand that is a technical challenge for your engineers team. But I believe Tado can do it (or at least I hope)

    Tado developed such a nice product, I've been using it for so many years (already in my previous house with just one thermostat) and I'm always telling my friend how nice Tado is. But it's not complete yet. That's why I insist, and that's why you see here so many people with the same problem.

    At least I understand now that Tado is looking into it and that we can have some hope to have our problem solved in the future. I really hope you can do it!

    Just have one more question to you that is related to what you said about homekit only supporting 25 devices. You mean Tado devices or other homekit devices? I ask this becasue I actually have much more then 25 HomeKit devices working without any problem. Also you said that your app does not have any limit, but the article you shared says it has a limit of 25 devices. So I was a little confused to be honest

    Best regards,

    Mario

  • Pete
    Pete ✭✭✭
    edited June 2021
    Hi all,
    I have been playing with tado for a long time to resolve connectivity issues.
    I think/hope I now have a solution.
    I have assembled a passive repeater.

    The passive repeater is simply two antennas connected together by a wire, one positioned next to the bridge, the other in the far end of the house.
    I have my bridge in the loft so running the cable is easy.
    I bought 2 of these for £3 each off Amazon.
    - Fransande Dual Band 868MHZ 7DBi RP-SMA High Gain WiFi Antenna
    This cable for £9 again off Amazon.
    - Gazechimp 20M RP SMA Male To Female Nut Bulkhead Crimp RG174 Coax Cable Jumper Pigtail
    One of these too for £2 off eBay.
    -RP SMA Female to RP SMA Female Straight RF Coaxial Adapter connector

    The antennas simple screw into the cable ends so it's really easy (use the adapter for one end of the cable), all for a total of £17.
    Long standing connection issues seem to be fixed.
    For completeness, I also have a large foil board fitted above the bridge in the loft as this helps reflect all signals down into the house.
    Let me know if anyone tries it and if it helps.
    Pete
  • I followed up again with support a few weeks ago after having more devices continue to randomly go offline and stay offline for extended periods (sometimes days).

    This may not apply to everyone, and my issues are by no means fixed, but are definitely improved:

    The tado support person was struggling to get my extension kit reconnected, which was weird, as whilst on different floors the extension kit is less than 15ft away from the internet bridge.

    Anyway, he wanted to change the channel on the internet bridge as he suspected there may be some interference (I have smart switches and some other IOT wireless devices at home also). Since this has been changed, I've noticed a big improvement in my TRV connectivity - it is by no means perfect, but it's a huge improvement compared to the issues I had previously. Devices continue to drop off intermittently, but it's for much less time and I can often now see all devices responding at the same time in the tado app which was very rare before.

    One TRV in the Kitchen continues to be the main culprit but it is now connected more often that not, previously it was the other way around.

    As I mentioned, the adjustments that tado made may not be for everyone, but if you have other wireless smart devices at home it may be worth having the internet bridge channel adjusted to see if things improve.

  • Jurian
    Jurian | Admin

    Hi all,


    Firmware 87.1 has been released to all Internet Bridges (V3 and V3+)

    This firmware should (significantly) increase the stability of the radio connection to the other tado devices. If one tado device still has trouble connecting, please keep moving/changing the orientation of the tado Internet Bridge.


    Please note: This firmware has not done anything for the stability of the connection to the tado cloud (the LAN connection).

  • Pete
    Pete ✭✭✭
    @Jurian
    That's great news.
    Just checked my bridge and it's running 87.1.
    I'd be interested to know when exactly this update began rolling out and how it manages to improve reception via firmware.
    Personally, one part of my house reception got worse from around 6th July. No better today.
    Hope things haven't accidentally got worse?!
    Thanks.
  • My bridge is also running 87.1 but it hasn’t fixed the reliability of one of my trvs. It still has intermittent connectivity.
  • cbd20
    cbd20 | Moderator
    Hi @jurian how sure are we this improvement doesn't have a negative effect on things?

    I've just had my extension kit LED showing the "Interrupted On" status, so it at some point lost connection today. This is the first time this has happened since I bought the product over 3 years ago, and none of my devices have moved location.

    Could be a coincidence of course, but seems strange it happened after an update that supposedly improved connectivity.
  • I have a Mesh network, and my Tado works great with it, as do all my other internet devices.

    Yes to Mesh!

  • Thanks for that news Jurian, will keep an eye on my devices over the coming weeks . . .

  • Pete
    Pete ✭✭✭
    Sorry @Dr_Ian but mesh WiFi has nothing to do with tado.
    I've got mesh WiFi too but tado operates at a different frequency (868mhz).
  • Jurian
    Jurian | Admin

    @Pete the rollout began on the 8th of July 2021. Most devices would have updated on the same day.

    The firmware should have an overall improvement to the RF stability, however this will be monitored by checking all connected devices in the next weeks.

    If you experience a deterioration, and moving the tado bridge does not solve it, please feel free to contact us via the chat on www.tado.com.

  • cbd20
    cbd20 | Moderator
    edited July 2021
    Hmmm... So in the last 2 days, I've had two different radiator thermostats disconnect. This is the first time in over 9 months of using them. Just lucky the heating is currently off so I don't need them.

    This coupled with my extension kit disconnecting the other day, makes me think that perhaps this update isn't working, and has maybe made things worse in some cases.
  • Hands up those who have found that the latest release didn't make a blind bit of difference to the disconnection problem?

    🖐️

  • Worse, if anything. Whatever happened to testing before release? This feels like crowd sourcing beta testers.
  • Looks like another "see through" Tado upgrade to me......in other words......it's a bit like the Monty Python parrot sketch...... "beautiful plumage" 😎 🤣
  • Jurian
    Jurian | Admin
    edited August 2021

    Just as we do before and after every firmware release (including alpha and beta releases to internal testing devices), we have looked at a broad range of data. From that data I can say that the update has improved the connection between the tado devices and the tado bridge for the vast majority of connected devices in the field.

    However, even though this update was a major improvement for the vast majority of our users, it could be that you still experience temporary outages of some of your devices.


    To combat this, there are a few steps you can take:

    1. Change the position of your tado bridge. Every tado heating device connects to the tado bridge directly.
    2. Change the orientation of your tado bridge. The tado bridge is a single antenna device, this means that the sending/receiving strenght is not omnidirectional. By changing the orientation (horizontal, vertical, diagonal, upside down etc..) you can have a major impact on the connection strength between your devices and the tado bridge.
    3. Change the position of your tado heating devices. (this might not always be doable because Smart Radiators are always in a fixed position).
    4. Move away other electronic devices (especially other wireless devices on 868Mhz).
    5. Move the tado devices away from large metal objects because those might block the wireless signal.


    By following these tips, you should be able to get a more stable connection between your tado heating devices and the tado bridge.


    Please also keep in mind that this topic will show a huge bias towards people who are experiencing issues. We have the ability to base our comments on unbiased data directly measured from the complete field of installed devices.

  • Please share some information or a diagram showing the antenna gain directions. I have a single trv that no longer connects so knowing how to orient the antenna should solve it.
  • Pete
    Pete ✭✭✭
    @Jurian
    Sadly this was all a bit too predictable.
    People who don't experience significant issues with disconnection have theoretically benefitted from a software adjustment.

    People who experience problematic disconnection issues see no benefit.
    It was ALWAYS the case that proper communications issues would not be fixed with software.
    As per the TITLE of this thread, some kind of range extender/repeater is required.
    The sooner Tado accept this INEVITABLE reality the better.
  • @Steve999 Unfortunately we do not have the thing you are looking for. But the antenna is mounted at the top of the PCB and thus the top of the tado bridge. Because of the other components, it is safe to assume that in the direction of the 2 cables coming out of the bridge there should be a weak spot.

    Other than that, I am sorry to say that this will be a process of trial and error.


    @Pete Thanks for your suggestion and reminder about the original title of this topic. I think I posted something in this thread before regarding the difficulty of having multiple bridges with the current hardware/software setup. However, we will take all feedback into account for future developments.

  • @Jurian
    166 up votes on this thread.....and yet Tado says...."However, we will take all feedback into account for future developments."
    Wow....that's really very reassuring !!!
  • @Jurian

    Certainly more error. I've put fresh batteries in and moved the hub around the house and reset the trv each time and except for a brief connection a few hours before the first move (which is what gave me the impetus to start to relocate the hub), there's been absolutely no connection. Despite the trv not erroring at all during the reset.

    It actually seems to be worse than before whether the hub points up or down and I've put tin foil over the top to try to force the signal to bounce down to where I need it.

    I'm decidedly underwhelmed here.

  • Robbie
    Robbie ✭✭
    edited August 2021
    Since I purchased my Tado equipment (11 trv’s, 3 wireless thermostats, etc.) I am checking this topic on a regular basis, hoping to see a solution on the horizon…

    My Tado setup is not usable with half of the trv’s randomly being disconnected all the time.
    I experimented endlessly, but eventually I gave up. Until Tado provides a REAL solution for this problem, I sadly have to accept my purchase is a waste of money and a source of annoyance everyday.

    Please Tado, acknowledge this huge problem for what it really is. Shed light on your plans and timeline. Let us know you will prioritize this problem, because we are waiting for proper communication (both from support and trv’s)

    Kind regards,
  • Painy
    Painy
    edited August 2021

    Despite the update, my furthest valve (which is like 15mrs from the bridge as the crow flies), still doesn't connect.

    Although this issue might only be a problem for a minority of users, I'd expect these numbers to go up in the future as houses become better insulated. The valve not getting a connection is located in the best insulated part of my house.

    I would also like a hardware solution

  • Pete
    Pete ✭✭✭
    @Painy
    Agreed. Foil backed insulation is not RF friendly.
  • Perspective is important too: tado does virtually everything to a very high standard. I too have one remote radiator that chooses for itself when to connect. So, my perspective? The sun is shining, I get paid tomorrow, my family is happy and I have a coffee. The one errant valve is but a blip in the grand scheme.
  • Pete
    Pete ✭✭✭
    Hi @jurian,
    Just noticed my bridge firmware has updated to 88.1 . Is this another change to try and improve signal?
    Thanks
  • I've been using the Tado system for over a year. I'm a Network Architect in all things connectivity, from tier 1 ISP, WiFi, LTE, Ethernet, Bluetooth and so forth.
    I unfortunately have all but given with the Tado system and will be counting my investment as a loss. Every Signal can be extended with the correct development, and it's extremely disappointing to see that a hardware solution has not been developed. This should have been one of the first items produced with the bridge.
    RF signal will always have attenuation, especially within dynamic environments. This should have been proposed within the design stage of the product.

    I've found and been testing a competitive product which out performs Tado with the functionality I need for gelocation, frost protection, multi zone support, tailored scheduling, weather adaptation and provides an extender.

    I'll be cancelling my subscription and binning Tado since its consistently dropping out and ends up over heating the rooms which have been set to be low temperature for my servers.

    I've stopped recommending this product, the features are somewhat improving but the key hardware functionality is not being addressed.

    Software updates can only improve a very small portion of issues. It has limited effect on RF gain and attenuation.

    Best of luck to those who decide to keep believing in Tado.