[Released] Launch an external temperature sensor for the Smart Radiator Thermostats



  • Vertigo
    Vertigo ✭✭✭
    edited December 2019

    So, do you think Tado could calibrate and apply a curve of sorts to the offset? 

    They already do something like that, I read somewhere the temp measurement you see is not a direct measurement, the TRV has 2 sensors, one closer to the the radiator and one further away in an attempt to compensate for radiator heat. They also average the reading over quite a long time.

    When you are trying to maintain a constant temp with a luke warm radiator, I can see this working somewhat. But when you are heating from cold to much warmer, and you have a glowing hot radiator and you are trying to guess room temperature by comparing 2 sensors mounted a few cm apart, I dont think this is feasible.

    Besides, there is no reason not to implement external sensing. Not when you can buy wifi or zigbee temp sensors for $9 retail

  • WORKAROUND (within the Tado Platform):

    SENSOR: so the Smart Radiator Thermostats are reading the temperature close to the radiator (which is higher than the actual room temperature). When the temperature is reached (offset or no) the valve closes, the radiator gets colder and the Smart Radiator Thermostat is starting to measure the actual room temperature. The sensory data is performing correctly.

    PROBLEM: the problem is that the actuators are acting on this data, and not on what we'dd like to have as a solution (a cozy room when waking up at 6 un the morning)

    SOLUTION: So let's create a time schedule to overwrite undesirable behaviour on the actuator side. If we would manually set the temperature to be way higher that actually needed for say the first 30 minutes depending on the size of the room, and then gradually drop the temperature evey other 30 minutes (a degree at the time) we would end up with the correct temperature in the room and on the sensor.

    SCHEDULE: I've been tinkering around with this idea, and it is actualy simple to do. I (1) create a timeblock, (2) set it to the highest temperature, (3) divide the block into two halves, (4) divide the second halve into two halves, (5) lower the temperature for the newly created blocks.
  • Has anyone tried to open a Tado radiator valve, desolder the temperature sensor and attach it to an extension lead?
  • Good idea jacoscar. Perhaps the resistance of a long lead would mean some calibration adjustment might be necessary. Given the expense of a smart trv, I am not inclined to try personally 😁.

  • +1 for this. Just installed the TRV's and they are appalling. I work as a BMS engineer (heating and ventilation controls) and this product is actually embarrassing. No support from Tado when needed. Close to returning all products.

  • The great irony is Tado used to have a small, dedicated room thermometer. It came as part of the v1 extension kit.

    When I upgraded to v3 hardware I asked if it could be used in conjunction with the smart TRVs to be told no, it's not compatible.

    The basic tooling / blueprint, it would seem, is already there (granted updated circuitry and firmware most likely is required too) -- so Tado...why hasn't this been acted upon given there's clearly a demand for such an accessory??

    The smart TRVs are conceptually at great idea, but they have a glaring flaw that has a clear and easy(?) solution.

    Failing that, as others have pointed out, there's a plethora of other 3rd party smart home devices that read room temperature (I'm looking at my echo right now which is one such device). How about integrating with these if a Tado 1st party hardware solution isn't feasable?

    If I'm honest I'm amazed the TRVs were released without a re-worked v1 room thermometer released alongside them. 🤯

  • +1 Yes please - several rooms where just setting an offset on the TRV still results in not accurate room temp readings. A cheap room stat slaved to a given TRV would be a great addition.

  • @jcwacky - not that it matters but can you update thread name as thermo plus motion/occupancy detect?

    Competitors (ecobee smartsensor) https://www.ecobee.com/en-us/smart-sensor/ shows its possible to do with reasonable price and would add tremendous value and options to the Tado ecosystem.
  • jcwacky
    jcwacky ✭✭✭
    @jakubwagner I feel it’s the external temperature measurement that is essential. Although I agree, motion detection would be a nice extra. Can’t edit original post, but motion detection probably more suited to its own request and discussion.
  • +1 this would make it so much more efficient!
  • +1 this is badly needed

  • I have some rooms where the Radiator thermostat is very close to the window. This makes the room seem a lot colder than it is. A separate temperature sensor would help a lot! +1.

  • +6 (since I have 6 TRVs)

    for those reading this at Tado HQ - please offer external temperature and humidity sensor

    in case signal from external temperature sensor is not available, you can fallback to TRV, so we are covered in case battery runs out etc.

    edited January 2020

    I'm playing around with dismantling a TRV and installing the circuit board into a small case and hopefully run it off a 3v coin cell if not a couple of AAA batteries. I've already have a spare TRV with its connections to the motor disconnected and it works perfectly fine as a temp and humidity sensor .

    When Amazon sells the 4 pack for each one can be adapted costing around £35 + £5 £40 not cheap for a wall sensor but half the price of the smart thermostat.

  • Jacopo2
    Jacopo2 ✭✭✭
    I had the same idea and tried using the TRV as just a sensor; I’ve always wondered if disconnecting the motor would cause any error but it sounds like it doesn’t
    Do you think it can be put back together after being dismantled?
  • @Jacopo2 The circuit board is connected to the motor and the led display by a single small ribbon cable, flip a tab and remove, very easy to connect and disconnect.

    If using the valve itself you would need to make sure its connected to system and done its calibration. Then pop off the top ( taco sign) remove ribbon cable all with batteries inside.

    Removing batteries and popping cable will then give you an error on your app ( calibration) but my short initial testing showed it still monitored temp and triggered heat.

    I'll feedback when I've transplanted the circuit board into another case.

  • jcwacky
    jcwacky ✭✭✭
    edited January 2020
    For anyone looking to experiment with dismantling Smart Radiator Valves, they’re currently available for just £32: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01M690PQC/
  • Jacopo2
    Jacopo2 ✭✭✭
    Wtf, I paid them 49£ this summer and thought it was a good deal
  • Maybe a fire-sale to clear out existing inventory before launch a mesh networking enabled one? Conjecture and wishful thinking most likely on my part! https://community.tado.com/en-gb/discussion/comment/7495/#Comment_7495

  • Jakosaur
    Jakosaur ✭✭✭
    edited January 2020

    @Joead To be honest, I've been thinking the same. After seeing the 4 vertical pack down to £134.24 in December, I thought something must be happening. Might just be me looking into it too far.

    When I asked about maybe a cheaper package for a Smart Thermostat, if you already own a valve I got this response - https://twitter.com/tado/status/1196474538722246660

    Read into that how you want. Cheaper thermostat package, new cheaper external room sensor, nothing? 😂

    Maybe waiting to release new products at the same time?

    Our house, like everyone else here, could really do with some sort of external sensor to control our valves! 🙂

  • +1, fibaro heat controller has an external temperature sensor so it is not that difficult to improve this tado system.

  • External sensor is definitely needed. I’ve been playing around with offsets for months and it’s not the solution. Surely something needs to be done by this company to at least keep its users informed as to what it’s doing for its users.

  • I'd say a class action law suit would get a reply. A lot of false advertising like the firmware will upgrade when you connect.

  • Big +1 on this!

    Tado°, is there any solution on the way?
  • +1 On this please, it's a no brainer.

    Tado, please if you're reading these threads - In the meantime, can you at least allow us to dynamically apply the offset. For example only apply it when the TRV is calling for heat.

    For example mine tend to be 2C hotter than the room actually is so if I apply a -2C offset it's correct when the room is being heated but wrong when the room is not being heated. When not being heated it'll report -2C colder than it actually is which causes the heating to be unnessessarily turned on.

  • +1 external temperature sensors is highly needed
  • Yes a solution is needed urgently. Tado for goodness sake respond and do something about it.

  • I have just raised a ticket with support to ask what they are doing to address this problem. Suggest everyone bombards them until they resolve the issue.

  • I have been running my house with Tado Smart Thermometers for a couple of years, very happy with the solution. I decided to "upgrade" the upstairs, replace the 4 TRV's on my radiators with the Smart Thermostats (due to the nice cheap price at the moment. Having installed and played for a couple of days, I am so disappointed. They really don't work at all well, when the room is cold / radiator is off, they give an accurate reading, but as soon as the radiator comes on (say at 19 degrees), the STRV thinks it is something like 24 and turns the radiator off. I am on the verge of returning these, we just have cold bedrooms now, they are not fit for purpose at all. I'm half tempted to buy another 4-pack and use them as remote thermostats, or follow MHUHX advise and rebuild as a sensor, but wow, what an inelegant solution! What terrible customer service. Feeling very annoyed with Tado at the moment, the silence on this issue is really not acceptable, they got this product very wrong indeed

  • @rgh Going off previous experiences, they'll just link you to a page saying get a Smart Thermostat or set an offset. They'll state these are your only options, at-least from my experiences with them. They'll refuse to say anything further, but them stating those as solutions is really awful.

    When you tweet them now, you rarely get a reply from them. They'll be liking tweets before and after yours in their mentions. 🤷‍♂️

    Miss the days with Frank having a laugh and replying with GIFs on Twitter. Their account on here (forum) seems to have gone too, unless it was renamed? I understand they now have Twitter DM support, but you always could get some sort of reply on Twitter before.

    I get if they're working on something, they'll probably want to wait until it's ready before saying anything. But this is really highly requested now for one reason; the Radiator Thermostats don't work correctly without a remote temperature sensor.

    Tado, let us know if you're working on something, otherwise people are going to start returning products. Especially with how easily Amazon returns are, you'll end up with loads of stock being returned to you Tado!