[Released] Launch an external temperature sensor for the Smart Radiator Thermostats
Comments
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For the same reason you don't need to buy Apple-headphones just because you own an iPhone. Humidity sensors and temperature sensors are installed in many devices nowadays. Existing smart-home solutions need to be working as a unity. It is simply not smart to force your own proprietary stuff on people that already have a working measuring environment that controls an air humidifier for example.
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There are several (negative) issues with Tado regarding all of this.
- The overwhelming response of users is that their built-in radiator valve thermostat is uselessly inaccurate
- Rather than like some other makers of heating controls they did not make a dedicated, simple and cheap room thermostat to 'replace' the valve thermostat, they effectively took their existing full-blown one and reprogrammed it meaning the hardware costs were effectively unchanged and correspondingly high.
- They have failed to update the hardware of their existing products noticeably to either fix this issue or make it cheaper e.g. by completely removing the useless thermostat in the radiator valve so as to be able to reduce the hardware cost
- They have failed to develop the software side of things, especially now with Matter which I am sure like me many other existing customers would want Tado to add, this would potentially allow ANY thermostat even a one embedded in a light switch or other device to be linked to the radiators of the same room and again solve this problem.
On an aside, I had thought Tado had been acquired but I was mistaken. They do have Amazon as a major investor and were planning a SPAC based IPO but this has been cancelled. I feel they will either go for a traditional IPO or Amazon might buy them outright.
I have to say with the almost zero progress in new products or features that I would not regard them as an attractive IPO. However Tado have been very successful despite this selling product direct to customers and even more so by doing deals with boiler makers.
Despite what Tado claim, I feel they are far less suited to use with ASHP and this might negatively affect their future and this relates to their lack of progress on new solutions.
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@andreasz exactly (sarcasm alert). Never invest in a closed system. Mine all went on ebay and I don't miss it at all. Over the past few years the competition has caught up and left Tado behind.0
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@johnbur I'm sure I'm not the only one who would love to hear what you have switched to, and what pros / cons you have experienced relative to Tado.
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Yes, I'd also be interested to learn what is a better alternative from the tado "ecosystem". If there's nothing else comparably better, I'll be reinvesting in another tado system, only this time I'll be mounting the smart radiator valves horizontally. Though to be honest, I only had one room in my previous property where the temperature differences caused problems discussed in this thread. On the whole, I was pleased with the tado system.
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That's what happens when you leave your users hanging with the same requests over and over again. I have a question though. Which system did you migrate to? Where I live, most of the heat is coming from radiators and not central heat, so until around a year ago, these thermostats were by far the best (and only) truly working solution.
I'm curious what else there is. I did some research and I couldn't find a single reliable solution.
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If I was starting again and wanted a stand alone system that doesn't have the deficiencies that Tado refuse to resolve. I'd probably go for Drayton Wiser at the moment.
However, I'm down the Home Assistant rabbit hole, so 15 Sonoff zigbee trvs at £25 each and an £8 zigbee temperature sensor in each room was all I needed. Sold my 5 year old tado TRVs for around £40 each. Home Assistant does all the clever stuff on boiler control and scheduling, and it's all local - no reliance on the Internet.
Certainly not a solution for most people, but if you like tinkering, home assistant is amazing.1 -
I also use home assistant, but only to turn off the TRV when a window is opened (actual window zigbee sensors). I obviously still manage Tado from the Tado app, the programming schedule has improved a lot in the last year or so. I was able to find cheap Tado thermostats so I now have one in each room.
How do you manage temperature schedules in HA? Simple time based automations or is there something more sophisticated?1 -
This for schedules:
https://github.com/nielsfaber/scheduler-component1 -
And this to control the trvs:
https://github.com/jmcollin78/versatile_thermostat1 -
What about being able to do an initial calibration, with one smart thermostat connected to the radiator, and a second one in another (defined) position in the room (just standing there, not fixed to a valve) ? Then after a fee hours, the system would understand how the room reacts to changes, and calibrate it accordingly.1
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I sent this to tado today while chatting to them online:
" Hi, I have a tado system installed, it is working well but I have realised after using it for a couple of weeks there are some problems with temperature readings.
The radiator thermostats when mounted vertically give wildly inacurate readings when the radiators heat up.
Having been on the community forum i see that this is a well known and historical problem.
It appears that there are 2 solutions, namely to pair the rad thermostats with a wireless sensor (£99) or to use the offset function (which is inacurate when the rad is off)
So my questions are this:
are there any plans to either;
1. Improve the offset function so it isn't inacurate when the rads are off?
2. Perhaps make a smaller, cheaper wireless sensor?
and more importantly have I been mis-sold radiator thermostats that can't measure temperature accurately without also purchasing a wireless sensor? "0 -
.... And they replied with this:
" The offset function is as it is, there are other factors that are used when tado° is controlling the heating.
A smaller cheaper version is not planned to be developed.
You have not been misled to buy the Smart Radiator Thermostat that can not measure the actual temperature of the room. That information is available, but sadly, it is not written everywhere.
The tado° Smart Thermostat is a PID controlled thermostat. This means that tado° not only looks at the current temperature but also at the overall temperature trend.
In other words, it will turn the heating on until the room temperature increases just above the set-point. Then the heating will remain off until the temperature starts to drop.
In doing this, tado° can prevent your heating from switching on and off too frequently and thereby protect the boiler from excessive wear and tear. It is also much more efficient in terms of energy usage.
It can also happen that, when tado° notices the temperature is dropping very quickly, it will start to heat in order to prevent the temperature from dropping too far below the set-point, even though the current temperature is above the set-point.
Kind regards,"0 -
I have now purchased 2 more wireless sensors to resolve this on my downstairs radiators.
My upstairs bedroom radiator thermostats (fitted horizontally) are out by about 1.5 - 2°c and i have offset these. However the readings when the radiators cool down are then off by 1.5 -2°. Not satisfactory but better than spensing another £400
12:49 pm0 -
If you don't want to pay for the sensors and you don't want to drain your system to turn your valves horizontal, then there is always this adapter:
Oventrop 1011450 Angle Adaptor for Valve HK White https://amzn.eu/d/fhzpi7j
Look out for deals on Amazon, the wireless sensors do get reduced to ~£50.0 -
Why do they talk about the PID controller in their reply? It’s good to have it but it’s not what you asked, it looks like they were trying to change subject
I like this sentence ‘ That information is available, but sadly, it is not written everywhere.’
How can the information be available but not written anywhere?
As in everybody knows but nobody wants to acknowledge it?0 -
Tado should definitely offer a cheaper temperature sensor, or make 3rd party temperature sensors compatible with the app. 90 euros for a tado sensor and only 15 euros for an Aqara temperature sensor, huge difference.
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@Mauritsss not going to happen. They have a closed system that people keep buying, so why change?0
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@Mauritsss apologies, I was attempting sarcasm....0
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Tado announced that a smaller cheaper temperature sensor can be added yesterday in this thread: https://community.tado.com/en-gb/discussion/comment/72614#Comment_72614
"Hi,
We have finally finished testing and jumping through the release hurdles presented to us by Google and Apple to get the ambi control App on the Apple and Google App stores. If you add an ambi wireless temperature sensor to a room it will adjust your Tado system to keep the heating on until the temperature in the room, rather than at the radiator, reaches the temperature you set. If you are interested you can purchase ambi wireless temperature sensors from our ambi website.
Home
https://community.tado.com/en-gb/home/leaving?allowTrusted=1&target=https%3A%2F%2Fambitemp.co.uk
Cheers,
Mark"
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Also note that Tado have been working (slowly) through our requests in what has generally been the order of votes. If you order the requests by votes (categories > suggestions improvements and ideas > sort Top), you'll see how low down in the pecking order this is.
Although, I see some requests which were below this one a year ago are now far above it which further explains the general logic of which requests get resolved first. I'm not defending anyone. Just trying to give a little context. Hope this helps.
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An astute observation, buddy. I corrected the comment 1 minute before you highlighted the inaccuracy. Thanks for highlighting all the same.
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I would like to think that Tado is working down the order of requests and solving them but I haven’t seen any evidence of that.0
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I think Tado just want to be brought out and the OG shareholders can sail off into the sunset. The product is good, but it needs client engagement and innovation.0
