Launch a range extender or upgrade to mesh network

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Comments

  • Rob
    Rob | Admin

    @GrayDav4276

    I think I am making it very clear that this is a real issue that some people face. I even wrote before that the range issue is the most common issue. How am I not believing customers? I only gave cbd20 advice what to do; basically to contact support to address an individual issue and potential warranty claim, and giving some advice to speed things up.

    If the firmware solves or creates problems is something that is hard to determine on an individual basis. Sure, if you see a drastic change after an update, either positive or negative, there is a clear correlation and something that should be looked at. But correlation is not causation. To prove causation, we need data. As we have hundreds of thousands of these devices in the field, we have lots of data. When we notice a decrease in performance due to an update, the update is rolled back. Obviously updates are tested on multiple stages if smaller samples of devices before they are rolled out to everyone, so this should never happen on a large scale.

    All we can do in the forum is to:

    1. Give some general advice. So generic troubleshooting steps, followed by asking them to contact support for an individual approach if the generic steps don't help.
    2. Forward a signal from the forum to our developers. If one customer has an issue, it can very well be a coincidence. When multiple customers have the same issue at the same time, coincidence is unlikely. You can be very sure that when we notice that multiple people start complaining about the same 'bug' at the same time, I'll be talking to our engineers about this issue on the same day.

    @johnbur

    Thank you for proving my point.

    @Pete

    I personally would also like to see a repeater. We do two things: 1. Do the best we can NOW (=sticking plaster) and 2. address it in a structural way for the future. I just cannot give more information about point 2. when I don't have that information.

    About finding the cause of your range issue: honestly, I have no idea about any such meter or software.

  • I’ve also experienced maddening drop outs of TRVs and sometimes the wireless controller without rhyme or reason. Sometimes they resolve spontaneously but sometimes a reboot is needed. I have nothing in the house generating spurious RF so it remains a mystery. Initially I tackled the problem by moving the bridge, it’s now in an elevated position on the ground floor just below ceiling height but still the drop outs happen from time to time. Once again I’d like to add my voice to those requesting the development of a range extender . . .
  • @Rob you'll be pleased (possibly) to know that today I got an anniversary email asking my opinion. First one I remember getting but appreciated (although my comments might not be).

    The duracell's on steriods seem to have keep the connectivity happening for almost 2 weeks now - which makes me happy (duracell claim they're 200% more poweful than the normal ones and it seems to be borne out).

  • This is an obvious addition - Come on Tado - Listen to your customers....any sizable house is going to struggle with your solution (as I do!)...a range extender or a master/slave internet bridge setup really isn't that hard...

  • Hi All,

    I am going to keep out of these type of conversations in the future as it appears that my comments are being perceived as purely a non-constructive dig at Tado......this is not the case, I am just calling it as I "see" it.......I feel a "shadow" over me.

  • Again: To big house to cover with one hub. I have tree wifi-routers in my house. Is it not possible to put another hub at another router?

  • I personally would also like to see a repeater. We do two things: 1. Do the best we can NOW (=sticking plaster) and 2. address it in a structural way for the future. I just cannot give more information about point 2. when I don't have that information.

    That sounds so reasonable, but those words loose all meaning after being patient since 2017 hearing the same reply over and over again.

    There have not been any new or improved hardware for quite some time. And when even people at Tado are in the dark about what's coming up because like Rob wrote 'nothing has been decided on', then apparently we are still many years removed from any improvement on the subject.

    I guess it's not only about the range-issue anymore, but also about finding proof of life, where we aren't left with a 'half-baked problematic smart heating-system' (my words, based on my experience) which we cannot expand to a complete setup. To me it all comes across as EOL.

  • Rob
    Rob | Admin
    edited November 2021

    @Robbie

    To me it all comes across as EOL.

    You could not be further from the truth. The company is expanding, hiring more people (please reference me if you apply 😉 ), I've seen multiple prototypes for new generations of hardware and am personally cooperating on some of the concepts. Something like this would not happen if it was all end of life. On that job openings link the vast majority of the jobs are for engineers and IT professionals.

    Last year we replaced the Extension Kit with Wireless Receivers, specific ones for the UK (easy to configure and dual relay) and continental Europe (Digital and one relay). There was the introduction of the Wireless Temperature Sensor. We also replaced the dedicated vertical and horizontal radiator thermostats with one that can do both. This year was more calm, next year will see new hardware again if things go as planned. And that is just the hardware. The idea that nothing is happening is very clearly not true.

  • Sorry that statement alone smacks of EOL:

    "multiple prototypes for new generations of hardware"

    So our hardware is not going to be supported for long and we have bought into dead tech with a physical limitation on the transmit power and Tado's inability to get its head around IPv6 and the billions of addresses that you should be able to control from your servers regardless of the bridge power issue.

    I'm a year in and regretting this investment soooooo much.

    Steve

  • #conspiracytheory...
  • Pete
    Pete ✭✭✭
    Something here really doesn't make sense.
    @Rob said previously that "range issues are the biggest problem customers face"
    So why o why o why would tado prioritise these???

    1. Replacing Extension Kit
    2. Wireless Temperature Sensor
    3. Replace vertical and horizontal radiator thermostats.

    These are all 'nice to haves' but why would tado not fix, in Robs own words, the "biggest problem customers face"??
    Someone making the development decisions
    in tado appears to have screw loose, perhaps fixing that should be the priority!
    I can loan you guys a screw driver!
  • Robbie
    Robbie ✭✭
    edited November 2021
    EOL meaning the products we purchased, not the company. I’m sure business is booming.

    I just wish you would invest more in existing (troubled) customer's than is being done till now. You seem to have no idea how frustrating a limped heating system is in daily life. Reading this topic there are loads of users willing to help out, test and provide feedback, all while being patient as long things move visibly forward.
  • Joead
    Joead
    edited December 2021
    Tado: “We know range issues are the biggest problems customers have”

    Also Tado: “…..but instead of addressing that as a priority we used the last 3 years to make an extension kit, a new vertical/horizontal trv with same range issues and a massively over priced (literally the exact opposite of what we were asking for) wireless temp sensor!”

    Says all you need to know really, bravo Tado, bravo 👏.
  • @Rob I would still like to pick up on your "2. address it in a structural way for the future. I just cannot give more information about point 2. when I don't have that information" comment (not overly optimistic for an answer but I'll try). Are you planning to address it in a way that will not compromise existing investments? I'd be OK to replace me internet bridge. I'd be less than happy if structural way means "yeap, you'll need a new extension kit, a new thermostat, three new wireless sensors and ten new SRTs"

  • Robbie
    Robbie ✭✭
    edited December 2021

    @mperedim Thanks for weighing in. Let me start by reassuring you, upcoming new hardware will all be backward-compatible. Meaning you don't have to replace any of your purchased Tado-products, but simply add new and improved devices to your current setup!

    If you are one of those who is experiencing connectivity issues, I feel your pain, but I have great news: soon you will be able to add a secondary bridge which you can simply add to your environment in slave-mode. The device is currently in beta-testing, and we are planning a launch for the second quarter in 2022. I know this does not cover your issues for the current cold season, so to make up for that Tado offers all users who are facing connectivity drop-outs for more than 50% of the time a voucher to purchase one secondary bridge for a reduced price!

    Till then, thank you for your patience, we at Tado wish you a warm and cozy holiday season :)


    A reply like that would be a wet dream. In reality your answer is going to be: Like I said, I can't give you any information because we don't have that information. But Tado is doing great with plenty of sales. If you have connection issues, move your bridge an inch, or return everything in 30 days. If you have purchased longer than 30 days ago, then suck it up.

  • This reply is very confusing....at least it is for me. The thread is getting out of control imho
  • @GrayDav4276 agreed.
  • Rob
    Rob | Admin
    edited December 2021

    Look guys, I'm trying to be transparent and honest here. I fully accept that people can disagree with the choices the company has made. That is fair. I also understand that the problems you face as an individual user are valid, and stand out to you. We all experience this in our lives. The issues I have with my private devices are different from those that my neighbour experiences. I am oblivious to his problems, and he is oblivious to mine. As the manufacturer we try to see the bigger picture. and we have many ways to do so, including but not restricted to the forum. Take the Extension Kit example, a device we phased out and replaced last year. That device is fine when set up right, but professional installers (especially in the UK) struggled with configuring it properly for their customers. The installers complained, the customers of struggling installers complained. This was a big issue then, not on the forum but elsewhere. So, we designed a device specifically for the UK to address these issues. Problem solved. The new UK version of the Wireless Receiver with its two relays is not even available in continental Europe.

    The point I'm trying to make is: please try not to escalate this discussion. We are aware of the issue and we are looking at ways to address it. But please don't overinterpret my words. I also don't think the many different theories are helpful. I prefer to continue to add to the conversation, but when my input results in escalation then I'd have to rethink my input.

  • GrayDav4276
    GrayDav4276 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2021
    @Rob
    It's really not a helpful comment for a Tado Admin to state that..... "but when my input results in escalation then I'd have to rethink my input".....especially in a thread that is now 9 pages long in the Community Forum.
    Tado should be able to provide "clear and accurate" information to it's (sometimes long suffering) customers. In fact I would consider it to be a "necessity"....I'll keep looking out for a new "shadow" (some Tado Admin's know what I mean)
  • Hi Rob,

    All my support to see this great product and company grow! Thank you for this transparency, I never saw it on any other B2C company.

    Go ahead with your Road Map, as it is a great product. Even being new (near one month now), all my family is super happy with the functionality, even the less tekies!!

  • How come 8 out of 16 devices show offline in homekit, while in the tado-app only 2 devices show no connection? Is there something that can be done to sync it faster? What is the technique behind the tado-to-homekit connection?

    Can this be improved without the need of a range-extender?

  • Just spent ~700EUR on tado stuff only to encounter problems like this. These kinds of limitations are super disappointing when the devices are so expensive 😞

  • Painy
    Painy
    edited December 2021

    @Rob

    I appreciate your attempts to communicate to the users. This is far more constructive and consumer friendly than silence. Please keep it up.

    You can only try and rephrase your message so many times. Some users will just stay emotional until the problem is resolved. Fact that so many users are complaining is that they love what Tado can provide for their homes (if it were working perfectly). As far as I know, Tado is the only company that provides this level of control for multi room heating, so people are disappointed if that doesn't work 100% off the time.

    I personally have one valve not functioning properly. This irritates me from time to time, but not enough to quit Tado altogether.

    While I understand why Tado as a company is addressing this issue the way you've described, that doesn't take away my occasional personal frustration as my personal problem persists. A lot of users on this forum are not able to see a company's perspective, and will just complain about their personal issue not being resolved.

    They will do so until they quit Tado, or until the problem is fixed. And who better to ventilate the frustration than the Tado employee bringing company perspective.

  • @Painy I completely support your comment. Perhaps one thing get's overlooked though.. The statement A lot of users on this forum are not able to see a company's perspective is true, but isn't one of the main challenges of a company to not burden their consumers with their own struggles?

    It's impossible to please 100% of the customers 100% of the time, but I'm not sure that saying fits this connectivity-issue if after 4 years there is still nothing to hope for. When these issues occurred after purchasing my last batch of tado-equipment many years ago, I was full of trust the issues would be resolved over time. that's a healthy expectation of a tech-company where their core business is 'development'.

    I really do think it's time to get the ball rolling, regardless the difficulties the company has to face. All we users can do until then, is make us selves heard, perhaps even aggravate, to make sure the issue gets the attention it needs.

  • davidlyall
    davidlyall ✭✭✭
    edited December 2021
    @Rob

    Appreciate your input but although I don't have the connectivity issues I do understand that it's very frustrating for customers to invest heavily then find the system doesn't work reliably

    If this really is an important issue for tado then it would be useful for the head of product development to give an overview of the road map and also explain why mesh can't be incorporated into the current hardware. Mesh is already part of the 6LoWPAN specification so if it could be integrated in the software, Tado wouldn't need to develop an extender as every device would be a range extender
  • Rob
    Rob | Admin
    edited December 2021

    @Robbie

    I actually agree with you. It is right to make yourself heard. The clearer the signal from our customers, the bigger the effect on the decision making process. My personal role on this forum is two fold: 1. Be transparent and constructive to you as a customer and 2. voice the customer perspective within the company. The clearer the signal from our customers, the stronger my argument will be within the company.

    @davidlyall

    I know for a fact we are working on a mesh-type connection. This seems to be the future. I do not know exactly when and how this will be implemented.

    @Painy

    Thanks, I appreciate it.

  • Hi @Rob
    I assume that you made a Typo....
    I'm assuming that you meant "NOT" as opposed to "NOW"
  • Pete
    Pete ✭✭✭
    edited December 2021
    @Rob
    That's great, so tado are working on a mesh solution.
    Awesome news, assuming current kit doesn't end up in the bin and we're not talking 2023.
    My only other concern would be around whether mesh would negatively impact battery life.
  • Your concern is battery life? Mine is backward compatibility all day long. And timeframe ofcourse! Let’s hope this will be the last winter where rooms did not heat according to plan.
  • Robbie
    Robbie ✭✭
    edited December 2021
    As with many other smart-devices using a mesh-network; the battery operated devices don’t forward the messages, but only the devices plugged into an outlet do repeat the signal. So then we circled back to the repeater-subject.

    I don’t think it’s rocket-science, the technique exists, there are enough examples out there, it’s really clear what has to be done. Let’s build a repeater :)