Launch a range extender or upgrade to mesh network
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Please please please offer an Internet extender or make the thermostats work in a mesh.
Like many other users I am plagued by connectivity issues1 -
I also have two devices right at the edge of the range, and they disconnect from time to time. It's a brick house that generally suffers from not-very-ideal through-the-air connection. Moving the Internet Bridge is not an option (it's already in the middle of the house). A range extender / multiple bridges would be the needed solution.
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I want to add an outbuilding (connected to me central heating) but it's out of range. No extension is madness whish I knew this was an issue before I bought the system a few years ago. We have a TINY 2up 2 down house and have had drop outs but I've only just realised it's the internet bridge issues0
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Hi Michael @Michael_London ,
In order to conserve battery power it is highly unlikely that the Tado radiator thermostats could ever be anything other than 'end devices'.
i.e. not able to act as intermediate routers, passing data on from other devices in a mesh network.
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@Rob Any update on this? https://community.tado.com/en-gb/discussion/comment/38046/#Comment_38046
Heating season fast approaching and with energy prices......well everyone knows about energy prices at the moment.
If there's no update from Tado I'm not looking forward to yet another heating season with Tado valves dropping out and subsequently needlessly calling for heat.....
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Same as others. Maddening I didn’t know how poor the connection was before buying. Thinking about returning. Every corner of my house is bathed in wifi thanks to wifi repeaters. But Tado seems unable to go through more than a couple of stud walls without causing repeated drop offs to the TVRs and occasionally the boiler receiver unit itself.
Why would you put so much effort into the software interface, installation and aesthetics and get the most basic part wrong? I have Somfy blinds in an outbuilding, they work no problem whatsoever. Why can’t I get Tado to work in the next room to the bridge?0 -
@Joead The Internet Bridge is sending out as strong a signal it legally can. We've optimized the firmware of all devices, which helped but it was no miracle solution. With the current hardware we've more or less reached the range limit. They will be optimizing this further, but think of a few percent in improvement at best. If you suffer from massive range issues this will never be solved by a simple firmware update. You can follow the troubleshooting steps as shown in our help centre article. This will help many people, but some will still have issues.
My main point: the hardware and firmware are not faulty and behave as they should, which is perfectly fine for the vast majority of customers and not good enough for a small but not insignificant minority. There is only so much we can improve with software/firmware for existing devices.
As mentioned before, we are working on a different way of handling wireless communication. 'Thread' adoption. This, however, is not something I expect to be implemented in this calendar year.
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So as one of those in this group = “ not good enough for a small but not insignificant minority.”
What do we do? Where is the plan to help us? Can we get a refund? Tado have stretched this issue out with minor tinkering with firmware so most are past their retailer return dates. What do we get?
This is a known issue and not only have you don’t little to help us (current customers), you have continued to sell these items to new customers who themselves have come here looking for solutions that you clearly are stating do not exist.0 -
@Rob Thanks for the reply. I have a question regarding backwards compatibility and Thread.
Do you know if the existing product rage from Tado (TRVs, thermostats, etc) will be compatible with Thread via a fw update? The wording of your reply seems to indicate not:
"With the current hardware we've more or less reached the range limit"
"There is only so much we can improve with software/firmware for existing devices"
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The thing is: It's not a bug. We are simply at the radio range limits of the devices. All we can do for the current hardware is to take small optimization steps to the firmware. There is nothing else we can do. If you keep experiencing big disconnections issues after having taken all the troubleshooting steps, the hardware is not compatible with your home. This functionality is no worse from the day you bought it, and as such the normal warranty and return policies apply.
you have continued to sell these items to new customers
Well yes, because the vast, vast majority does not face the issues you face. Our devices work absolutely fine in their homes. They also work fine in my own home. This knowledge does not help you in any way, I realize this, but it's not like we are selling buggy devices.
Do you know if the existing product rage from Tado (TRVs, thermostats, etc) will be compatible with Thread via a fw update?
Honest answer: No, I don't know. No one does at this point.
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@Rob bit where on your website or installation documents do you identify that large or older buildings will struggle with range and that your continued changing of firmware may improve or worsen the operation of the product?0
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@stevearmstrong @Rob I don't think it is as simple as large or older houses will struggle with range.
We, for example live in an large old house with thick stone internal walls, and have never had a problem with range for 14 TRVs in four years, so I can't help thinking that there is other interference at play for those with issues? Or, does four year old kit (v1 TRVs) have better results than newer versions?
Not helpful for your situation, I appreciate, but you cannot just say that Tado does not work in old large houses.1 -
Agreed. And the occasional drop outs we do get don’t seem to be in rooms with thick walls. It has got better and better over time.0
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Normally I am browsing the german forum. An there is also quit a long post about this issue.
So inluding this issue (being a this moment the 2nd highest requested feature in en_gb) @Rob it is really strange to point out that " the vast, vast majority does not face the issues"...
Yeah I can confirm, that the range problem has improved by a few updates. But still there are problem to this topic. Like myself... I am living in a not even 100 m² apartment in Germay. Built in the 70s with material that was available (reinforced concrete). Our apartment layout is quite simple a hallway and 6 rooms connected to that (Just like a "star network". One of that is the living room where we see this mentioned issues. The bridge is in the hallway and the TRVs are not even 8 meters (straight) away but every so often these TRVs just lose connection. I don't even blame tado for this. Even Zigbee, Wifi and the heating units from the heating supplier having issues with just and only that room. But for all of that (except for the last bcs it is not my problem to care about) there was a solution... a repeater...
And that is where I don't get it. I saw so many possible solutions from the community. Hardware hacks like "better antennas", 3D printed stands and so on, but one solution just stuck to my mind... One member told that he bought a second bridge sticked it to a wifi repeater with an additional lan port... but then he had to create a second account because tado just allows one bridge per account. (Just by some googling, not the thread I had in mind but confirms it: https://community.tado.com/en-gb/discussion/comment/15273#Comment_15273) And that is the point where I don't get it. As a backend software developer I really do not understand how such an important feature (which is possible due to the community having a small "poc" with two accounts) is not implemented, but a "variable" heating by dynamic heating costs was more important? Really I can't imagine why I can't add another bridge. This would be also interesting if you have an externa guest house etc. I would really be interisted just form my software developer sight what are the software/hardware reasons are. Yeah it would not be a mesh of course but multiple star networks would be definetly better than jsut one and therefore range limited.
And if anyone is saying "but multiple bridges cant interfere". Yeah they can... maybe... but then there imho there should definetly a warning bcs you never now if or when a neighbour has also a tado system (that's why you can change wifi and zigbee channels, since this is a well known issue to wireless communication I hope tado has kind a "channel/frequency handling")
And just saying... Isn't it probably (assumption by me) more environmentally harmfull when the TRVs are stuck (bcs unseen and therefore not manually adjusted) on heating mode heating the whole night? Not only a TRV connection problem but also a internet/cloud problem.
For me... I am just waiting for matter and even some recently released zigbee thermostats from other manufacturers got my interest to fix my living room problem asap... But when matter starts I have to say bye to tado just of this issue!
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Build a repeater. (That is about software, not about hardware or signal strength).
That’s what is being requested in this topic.
It annoys me so much that Tado Rob keeps replying on questions no one really asked. While in the meantime I am stuck with a system that doesn’t fully function, and which I am not able to expand any more.
You don’t have to reply to anything anymore anyway, after 6 years now just present us a solution that’s ready to go.1 -
Reading between the lines, Tado has done zero work on threading (they don't even know which platforms it's being developed for) and @Rob simply kicks this down the road to string us all along until he says something similar next year.
However clearly his priority on this matter is even lower than it was last year.
Tado have zero interest in producing a repeater or even just allowing two bridges to operate on one account.
Their development team (one part time person) has bigger fish to fry, ie indistinguishable UI changes.-1 -
This is the way forward that the world is moving forward to implement https://www.threadgroup.org/BUILT-FOR-IOT/Case-Studies However I do not see Tado as a member..............
Mind you I believe that all our current TADO equipment would be redundant as it physically can not support this way of working.
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@Don___ Tado are listed as a member. And they have stated in this thread they are currently working on bringing Thread enabled devices to market.
…But it won’t be in time for this heating season, which is very disappointing given how long running and well known to Tado the range/connectivity issue is.
And given that Eve have Thread enabled trvs, thermostats and rage extenders on sale now it must be pretty humiliating and embarrassing for Tado.1 -
Try this link from the page you linked to: https://www.threadgroup.org/thread-group and scroll down a bit. You will find tado there. We have not implemented it yet, but we certainly are working on this topic.
As @johnbur and @CIW confirmed, it is not that easy. There are lots of factors that can limit range. Distance is obviously one of them, but also the types of materials a building is built with or, and this is a big one, other devices that interfere with our radio frequency. They might even be located at your neighbour's home. This is something that is super hard to trouble shoot. So, tado will work fine in some large house and not fine in some smaller ones.
As a backend developer, have you ever had colleagues from marketing, sales or just friends with a different background ask you "why don't you just do X, it seems quite simple?" In reality, it is not as simple as it might seem.
I actually had discussions with our devs. Just what multiple here suggest. "Why don't we release a firmware/software update that allows a second IB in an account, kind of like a repeater in a 'slave' function?" I got overwhelmed by reasons why this is not realistically feasible.
And if anyone is saying "but multiple bridges cant interfere". Yeah they can... maybe... but then there imho there should definetly a warning bcs you never now if or when a neighbour has also a tado system (that's why you can change wifi and zigbee channels, since this is a well known issue to wireless communication I hope tado has kind a "channel/frequency handling")
It's not just that. In theory you can just plug two IBs physically into one router, and address two different tado accounts that way. That should not be a problem. You can also, in theory (not officially supported), have 2 IBs in one tado account. That is where problems start. Pairing the heating device to a specific IB. Device A paired to IB X asking for heat at device B paired to IB Y, especially (but not only) when the internet is down. And so on. When you only have radiator thermostats and no wired tado devices, there should be fewer issues I presume.
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@Rob
This is only about money. The technical issues are easily overcome if the will exists. It clearly doesn't.
It is a short sighted strategy and Tado's lack of commitment to such an obvious development will cost them dearly.
With heating costs rising, many of my friends are now looking for smart controls. I advise them to steer clear of Tado (whatever size of home they live in).
Tado will see growth (as all smart heating manufacturers will do over the next few years) but it will be constrained by this short sighted approach.
Sad state of affairs.-1 -
@Rob I recall certain discussions in the forum where people have mentioned working with support to switch frequencies. Not overly familiar with this, but presumably 868MHz has channels (frequency ranges) in a manner similar to how WiFi has ~14 channels in 2.4GHz and (a few too many) channels in 5GHz. If yes, would it make sense to expose this as an advanced setting in your app, so that the users can try it out and see what channel works for them?
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I have also found it is significantly more reliable using the recommended Panasonic Eneloop batteries. Not clear why but it is an observable fact.0
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In fairness, in companies everything is about money. But also about capacity. We struggle very hard to find developers. The job market is super difficult right now. You can find many open job opportunities at tado. See https://apply.workable.com/tado/ Remote-only is also an option, from more EU countries than just Germany. Not sure about the UK at this time, but with a great resume that might (?) also work. Do note during your application that I (Rob) gave you the tip to apply ;)
My point being; we don't have as many developers as we'd like, so our capacity to develop things (software, hardware, firmware, ...) within a specific time is more limited than we'd like. Also more limited than what we'd have budget for. I assume this is true for our competition as well. As we speak, we are a 200+ people company though.
Our support can toggle between 4 different 'production' channels within the 868 MHz protocol. For troubleshooting purposes. However, our experience is that it's uncommon for this to be truly helpful. In the past I have worked at support at tado for multiple years, as the very last line of escalated tickets. I've changed that channel countless times, just because I could. But did I notice an effect? Yes, but very rarely. And sometimes it made things worse. If we were to add this as an option to the app, I'd expect a tidal wave of comments with content like 'it does not work', 'it has no effect', 'it made it worse', 'I don't understand how this works'. We'd make our lives more difficult. However, if you want this settings changed you can contact support and they can do it manually (or write me a PM including the email address used for your tado account).
That's a very interesting observation. It makes me very curious. Can you send me a personal message, noting your tado account email address with a comment how I can find the correct device and the date (very roughly, which quarter of which year is good enough) when you changed from disposable to Eneloop? If your account data looks promising, I might be able to convince our devs to try to reproduce it in our lab.
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I’ve messaged you. I started upgrading batteries progressively as the original ones died.0
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I have the same radio range problem as many others. A cheap, simple repeater/signal extender is all that is needed. I fail to understand why that has not been made after being requested for so many years.2
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@Rob I so wish I had found this thread before purchasing! I have ethernet throughout my house because my walls are not friendly to wireless signals. But nothing on the TADO marketing suggests any limitation.
I am only looking for radiator control.
Today I received a message that the batteries in a TRV needed replacing this is 10 days after I bought it.
If I could have a second bridge I think it would work.
I would even accept two different app instances.
I wouldn't mind too much if the TRV would "hold" the programme when it loses connection.
Come on TADO put 3 bright people in a room for 3 hours and get a solution.
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Tado already has a solution for the range problem! 😂
So much for a "smart" thermostat...
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Just adding my voice to this as someone who's just purchased tado this week, only to be dissapointed by the range available and the lack of extensibility. Our house is an older house with stone walls, and to be honest I wasn't expect to reach 50% coverage of the area, but I can't even get to 25%. I'm measuring this just by moving the wireless thermostat around, and I've already tried setting the bridge in a few locations, but too far and it falls out of range of the boiler controls.
I've also purchased 4x TRVs but at this point I'm not sure I want to even open the box as I'm likely to return the lot, which is a shame as I wanted to add a lot more to this setup (a total of 20+ rads and a wired thermostat for underfloor heating).
Tado marketing boasts about it's wireless range, yet it really doesn't appear to be suitable.
So I'm torn on whether to continue with Tado, or pack it up and go with a competitor. If I install these TRVs and they can't work, do I have any hope of getting my money back, or should I cut my losses now?
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At 25% coverage I would defo return.
There is zero prospect of Tado addressing the rage problem with this iteration of products.
Maybe when they release their Thread/Matter supported devices, but that's not going to happen this year and even when it comes there's no guarantee it will be compatible with this current generation of products.
I wonder how many sales Tado have lost due to not having a proper solution to their range problems.1
